<Begin Segment 24>

FS: The worst case was that Block 7 area. That's where all the Kibei hang around. And that's where all the trouble started, and that's where this guy that was running the canteen or something...

BT: Hitomi.

FS: Yeah, yeah, he got killed, stabbed.

BT: So what did you hear, why he got killed?

FS: I heard from, who the heck told me? Mr. Inouye, the judo instructor, he told me. He says, "Don't fool around with the Kibei. Just because I'm a Kibei, that don't mean you should get to know Kibei. Keep away from the Kibei. 'Cause they don't like Nisei anyway, but don't get involved." So I said, "Why?" He said, "Well, do you remember that canteen no oyaji?" "Yeah." "Korosaleta." So I said, "Well, did Nisei people do it?" "No, no, that's Kibei did it." And so he had told me never go around that Block 7, and never get to know the Kibei.

BT: Well, why would they have done that, though?

FS: To get control of the camp. And he was in charge of the canteen, so they want, there's money there. And that's what they're looking for. See, these Kibei were, they didn't have no jobs, they were fooling around. When they're fooling around and looking for trouble, they create problems. And the more they talk about it, the more bigger the problems gets. And pretty soon, "Well, let's kill him. Maybe he got money." That kind of stuff. But I don't think they even found the guy.

BT: Right, they didn't.

FS: No.

BT: They didn't do much of an investigation.

FS: No, they didn't do no investigation, no. None at all. Because we don't get the news. See, we're kind of on the other side of the fence. So all the things that are going around in the Tule Lake camp, "wasshoi" people, they're all Kibei and Issei instigated, started.

BT: Well, the Kibei was a pretty large group in Tule Lake.

FS: Yes, there were a lot of them.

BT: And it was a pretty complicated, diverse group. And so you had mentioned earlier there were Kibei doing gambling?

FS: Over there, but we didn't know where. But there were just Kibei and Kibei doing gambling. So they're, I don't know what kind of gambling they were doing either. They're not the typical Japanese. I really don't know, I never went in there. And then I had no business going there in the first place, you know what I mean? I mean, saying, "What are you doing here?" And they shove a knife into you. No, no, no. And there are people from Manzanar, very well influenced people, that he was a judo no black belt. And he was almost like one of my best (friend)... what I mean, opponent. And I got to know him real good, and he used to tell me, "Don't fool around with the Kibei guys in that 7 area." And don't go down to the administration area, all those guys are having trouble. If you want to get hit on the head, go, but keep out." We got to Tule Lake, and our purpose, he says, "I don't know about you, but my folks want to go back to Japan." That's why we're here. But we don't want to jeopardize that, we don't want to join groups and things to jeopardize that. We could get in the wrong group.

BT: Well, did you hear anything or have any experience with people that were, like the Koreans in Santa Anita, the inu spies? Did you have any experience with that?

FS: No.

BT: Or ever hear about anybody doing that?

FS: When the riot started, and they were pinpointed, and they were ganged up and almost killed, that's the time when I first met that guy.

BT: Which guy?

FS: One Korean guy, and that was at Santa Anita, though. Remember, that threw the typewriter at him?

BT: Uh-huh.

FS: Dozens of typewriter. I think they killed him.

BT: What about in Tule Lake, though?

FS: No. I think by then, they didn't want inu in camp. The biggest troublemaker would be, I'll tell you who they were. Most of that didn't come from the Kibei, it came from the JACL.

BT: I don't know if there were many JACL people in Tule Lake after segregation.

FS: Oh. Because this guy Tayama...

BT: Oh, right, in Manzanar.

FS: Yeah. He was a real, real troublemaker, okay. And the Matsuoka brothers, they were the troublemakers. And the JACL sent a team, eight members, to Japan, to get all the repats fired.

BT: Oh, we want you to talk about that story, but we'll... later.

FS: Oh, okay. [Laughs]

BT: And as far as the gambling and drinking, that was just something that you were not a part of.

FS: No, not in Tule Lake. Because without the head man, I couldn't function. It's like, where am I going to get the customer? I'm going to need the money, where am I gonna get the money?

<End Segment 24> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.