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TI: Before we leave Heart Mountain, how would you compare Heart Mountain in terms of just environment and atmosphere compared to the other camps that you...

FS: Other camps? I would say Heart Mountain was one of the best camp I was in. Totally one of the best. Why? It was run by Germans. Food was good, they didn't cheat, and there was only a fence in the front. You walk to the side, you could go to Powell, Cody, you go to Heart Mountain and get some rattlesnake and give it to the Issei people, and they make that teriyaki rattlesnake. You ever eat teriyaki rattlesnake? Oh, that's better than chicken. Tastes like chicken but better. I ate a lot of rattlesnake.

TI: And during this time, did your father continue working as a chef or cook?

FS: Yeah, he was working in the mess hall just to keep going. My mom didn't work at all. And then Heart Mountain, I got a job as foreman of the gas station, you know, you pump gas for all the vehicles in camp. And people that come in from the outside on their own car, remember there were gas rations? I used to sell five gallon of gas for x-amount of money.

TI: So this was kind of on the side, you would just...

FS: Oh, black market. I just asked, "You need gas?" Said, "Yeah," the guy said, "yeah. You got ration book?" I said, "I don't need ration, but if you want five gallon, cost you so much. But bring the can back. If you don't, got no deposit." I had a business going. And then, I had a better business. Since I was running the gas station, I could take the truck and take the ration, and a lot of needed stuff to Yellowstone Park. And we had camp people working in the Yellowstone Park dismantling buildings, CCC buildings. They're all nuts and bolts, easy, prefab, and they put 'em on trucks. But I brought food for them to eat, and whatever they need. And then brought things back, loaded section of the building. And then I stopped in Cody, the nearby town, just before, start with a whisky. White Horse... let's see, White Horse, what the hell was it? Hague & Hague, I remember those. And I bought all the scotch out because one guy wanted scotch. He says, "I know about ten other people that'll buy it." So they even gave me money ahead of time. And it was only $2.50 a bottle. So I bought all the scotch and sold it for, I forgot what it, I think it was something like fifteen bucks a bottle.

BT: So how were you able to sneak it back into camp?

FS: I had this big fifty-five gallon drum, I cut the top and put it upside down and put all the liquid in. All you had to do was... and the guard didn't check everything anyway. They just hit the top, boom, boom, boom, "Oh, it sounds hollow, go ahead." They didn't look. So I made fifteen, twenty bottles. At first I only had five or six bottle because I didn't want to bring too much. Second trip, I got double, third trip, I ran out of scotch and whisky. Canadian Club, you know, all the common whiskey. Jim Bean, I cleaned the liquor store out. Then I had to go get brandy because the guy in the camp said, "Well, whiskey naindattara. Get me brandy." So I had a good business going.

TI: Now, previously, when you worked with the gangsters, they would pay off guards and things like this. Did you have to do that in Heart Mountain?

FS: No, we didn't have no gambling there.

TI: No, not gambling, but for you to even do this kind of...

FS: Do that stuff? No, no, I was alone. I was a lone operator, so I didn't want to bribe somebody to make it big. When you bribe somebody, that person's going to tell somebody, you know what I mean. Before you know it, there's fifteen people after you. So as long as you keep your mouth shut and play innocent, all the whiskey I sold, I don't know how much I made. I made a lot of good money. Oh, that was good money.

[Interruption]

TI: So at Heart Mountain, where would you keep your money?

FS: I had a hiding place. A good place.

TI: So you can tell us now because... [laughs]. I'm curious, where a good hiding place...

FS: Inside the gas station, gas station are concrete floor. But there was one section where there was, it came in sections, squares. So lifted the bottom, and then I experimented. If you put the lid on and it's hollow, it makes a different noise. So what I did was lifted it up, made a small hole, and put a, I found a tin can with a cover, put the money in there and put it in there. No dirt or nothing, just sealed it, and then put the concrete square back. Then I hit it, same noise. So I kept it there until I was ready to go to Tule Lake.

TI: And so you were able to get in this building, and be there alone so no one could...

FS: Yeah, I was a foreman.

TI: ...see you.

FS: Yeah, I was a foreman, so I had two other people working for me. See, we did a lot of other stuff besides furnish gas. We did lube job, you know, lubing. So mostly trucks. The camp car, the big shots drove that, but they went to Powell, Cody, wherever they lived. So they served the car over there. And there were some white people that lived in our camp, but most of the womenfolks went out. They don't want to live near Japanese. [Laughs]

TI: So you, earlier, you talked about some of these gambling in other camps. Did you see any gambling at Heart Mountain?

FS: No.

TI: And why was that? Why not --

FS: Because the big shot wasn't there. Nobody to tell me what the hell to do. I didn't want to do it on my own, I couldn't get the customer. And you need a figurehead, and then the people will come. So the yakuza boss, he was a figurehead. People knew that if he said there's gambling, they know there was gambling. If I say it, "What the hell does he know about gambling?" Who's gonna believe me? I couldn't get customers. But when I was in Tule Lake, it's the same thing. I couldn't get gambling started, but it was a big camp. And there was a lot of gambling going on, but I didn't know who was doing that. See, my yakuza boss was in Santa Fe all this time. Now, if he was in Heart Mountain, maybe. If he was in Tule Lake, maybe gambling. But here, when I went to Santa Fe, he saw me, he came out and he said, "Oh, my lost brother, lost son," you know that. Oh, man, he was waiting for me. He said, "Matteta," "Waiting for you."

TI: Oh, that's good. Well, we'll get to that.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.