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TI: So it sounds like there was this overlap, too. You mentioned kendo, Boy Scouts, the Cougars. So was there a group that you spent a lot of time with that did similar things?

CS: As I say, Boy Scouts, Cougars, kendo, there was Boy Scouts and kendo, then there was all the same people, almost the same. So it was no problem. Busy in all three things having fun, that's why I hated to study. [Laughs]

TI: So tell me a little bit about Boy Scouts. I mean, I think of... actually, I don't know that much about Boy Scouts other than I always thought there was, associated with God, more Christian. Is that... because you were Buddhist, was there ever an issue being Buddhist in the Boy Scouts?

CS: No, like the Koyasan Boy Scout troop, that was one of the biggest. And ours was just as big, we had a drum and bugle corps. And we didn't get the publicity, but our drum and bugle corps was playing in the coliseum just like the 379 boys. So both 197 and the 379 of Little Tokyo, we were the biggest Boy Scout troops.

TI: Okay, so that was never an issue. Like, did you have very many, like, camping trips, excursions outside?

CS: Oh, yes. We had camporalls, go hiking up in the mountains, it was a good time. Out in the beaches or the mountains, the good old days. [Laughs]

TI: Now, how high up did you go in terms of scouting?

CS: Oh, I said I was a "Life for life." Because to get the merit badge, I had to pass lifesaving, and when I tried to take lifesaving, they had to save me. [Laughs]

TI: So you weren't a swimmer. [Laughs]

CS: No. So, but I still was the assistant scoutmaster. The scoutmaster himself was an older fellow, more or less a figurehead. But the actual running of the troop, I was running the troop for years.

MN: When did you learn how to swim? Because I understand the pools here were segregated.

CS: It was. That's why I guess I couldn't pass the lifesaving, 'cause I never... well, I did go, we'd go swimming and all that, but I'm one of those that I go in the water, I go right back in the shower and warm up, 'cause I wasn't made for the water. [Laughs]

TI: Well, but going back to the segregated pool, so was it harder to actually swim, it just wasn't as common?

CS: It was segregated, but certain days, we could go. So we used to go on those days.

MN: Before they changed the water, right?

CS: I guess that's what it was, probably, yeah. 'Cause we used to go to other indoor pools, too, used to go swimming. So the one in Boyle Heights you're talking about, right? The Evergreen Plunge, yeah. I think that, for a while, but then after that, that segregation was lifted, I think. We used to go there all the time.

TI: So that, going back to your earlier descriptions of Boyle Heights, where it was very diverse, you have all these different races, and yet there were certain, I guess, barriers or restrictions against, I guess, non-whites, the Japanese, and maybe the blacks, from doing certain things. Was that, was that a fair assessment?

CS: Not in my junior high and high school. I don't recall anything like that. We were free to do whatever we want to, and I used to have different friends getting, becoming officers in different clubs. So if there was, I wasn't exposed to it.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.