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TI: So you're at Honda, and Honda as well as other Japanese automakers became very successful. And as you remember, in the 1980s, there was a backlash to that. Can you talk about that time period?

CS: Yeah. Because (as) they were bashing (us), I know they were leaving out facts. Like, for instance, I'll go with the Japanese buyers. And Honda was just going to construct a new factory in Ohio. So we went to all the American parts and manufacturing and saying, "We'd like to buy parts from you." And they said, yeah, they'll sell us what they have, what they make for GM and all that. Honda's the one that had the metric system. And (they) said, "Well, we're not going to spend all that money to convert to the metric system, so you take what we have." So at that time, we knew we had to bring it in from Japan. Well, newspapers were saying, "How come they're buying, bringing it in from Japan?" Well, we had the parts here, that's one of the stories. Another case, we ordered some small valves for the Honda Accord, big shipment. Then a few days later, I get a call from Japan, "Hey, defective." So I called this company up and said, "Hey, Japan is complaining they're defective." Said, "How many percent defective?" I said, "About one or two percent." They're happy. "Oh, that's great, that's within our guidelines. We just go on at least no more than one or two percent defect." I says, "In Japan, we have a zero defect system," this Demming fellow put in that system, you know. So we, you know, had to have that company go into a new system. There was another case, catalytic converter, this was an interesting story. Catalytic converter, we went to... what's that company that makes ceramics, the big one?

MN: Marubeni?

CS: No, American company. Not ceramics, but also microwave... CorningWare, Corning. I went to Corning and said, "This is what we want. This catalytic converter had little squares of the ceramics, and it had to have the perfect, perfect square. And they showed us those they're making, "Look, it's almost perfect." Well, it has to be perfect, so we didn't place an order. One year later they called us, and we went over there and says, "Look." It was exactly the way we wanted it. So we placed a big order with them not only for the Honda factory (in Ohio), but sending it to Japan, too. So they were so happy. But I could go on telling you stories after stories of, that counters what was publicized in the press. So that's when I'm, when I'm making a speech, I've got one story after another of, hey, this is only one, here's the other side of the story. Like, for instance, steel, well, take a glass. We were buying glass from Asahi Glass in Japan. And we were bashed, "Why can't they buy it from the American guy?" They didn't know the story. We had placed the order (to make) the rear windows with a curvature. Honda had it, we ordered it from American companies, it was so brittle, it cracked and broke. So we had to call the engineers from Japan to teach 'em how to make it. And until then, we had to bring it in from Japan. Same thing with steel, the steel hoods. Japan made real thin, flexible hoods, you know. American steelmakers couldn't make it. So sent our engineers and taught the American steel manufacturers how to make this thin thing. In the meantime, we had to bring it in from Japan.

TI: So what's interesting is, in many ways, the Japanese manufacturers really helped American manufacturers.

CS: (...) Honda continues to order in Japan, so they weren't losing anything. And when Japan asked, "Please teach them for the American market," they were willing to teach.

TI: Right. And so they were really open to teaching American manufacturers, and then when the American manufacturers were able to rise to those standards...

CS: Then we would start buying from them.

TI: Then they would start buying, not only domestically, but also in Japan, it sounds like, sometimes.

CS: Yeah. So as I say, Honda right now is practically buying everything locally if they meet the standards. And they all learned the Demming method. There was one company I visited, he sells to General Motors and Chrysler and Ford, and also to Honda. So when I was talking to him, he said, "When Honda first came, we went to get their order and I'm sure they were disappointed with our products. But instead of cancelling, they worked with us," he said. "They would get our workers to go to Honda to look at what happens if you don't meet the delivery in time or it's defective. And they taught us, they taught us 'til we finally were able to make products that met Honda standards. GM and Ford never did that," he said. "What a difference between the two companies," he said.

<End Segment 28> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.