<Begin Segment 3>

SF: You mentioned, Akio, the incident you had with the teamster truck driver. That brings to mind the kinda whole question of what were the relationships like between the Japanese and whites in general?

AH: There was no so-called relationship. We just knew our position in society. Like I mentioned, every once in a while, we behaved like third-class citizens. In that way we never had any confrontation.

SF: So you kinda, if you stayed within your own kind of boundaries, then things were pretty okay.

AH: Yeah. And it was a comfortable life, as long as you knew your level, you didn't go barging into stores where you knew they weren't, they won't appreciate Japanese. I've been to stores downtown and they absolutely refuse to serve you, so you never go back again.

SF: How about some other establishments, like swimming pools, or anything like theaters. What was it like in those days?

AH: Theaters, you know, I really didn't have much problem with. Although some people used to mention they were supposed to sit in the balcony in the back somewhere. But I've never had that problem as far as theaters were concerned. And public facilities, there was no out and out segregation as far as I could remember. In fact, we, well, most of the ballparks we played in, like Collins Playfield, which was smack in the middle of the central area, there wasn't too many Caucasians. There was a number of Jewish people and blacks. But we were, got along pretty well. As long as you didn't compete for some position, is when you'd get into the trouble.

SF: So how were relationships in school, in school between the Japanese and the other groups?

AH: School was another social community that was, I guess, as close to being a real democracy as can be. There was very little, as far as I could remember... we were all students, equal rights, equal... nothing was brought up as a confrontation. And had good friends. It's only after school that you realize, in the so-called competitive world, then you were Japanese or you were some other ethnic race.

SF: How about in the area of -- this is following up on the school question -- the area of boy-girl relationships, say in high school?

AH: As far as I could remember, and of course, I didn't go through high school, and I did not have very much relationship as, social relationships. But I think, more or less, the ethnic groups stayed within their boundaries. There were a few who were a little more adventurous and dated out of their own group. But I think they were kind of rare.

SF: How did people react to people who sort of pressed the limit and say, maybe dated outside the Japanese group?

AH: Uh... I'm sure their parents, who were probably Isseis, did not wholeheartedly approve. I don't know, maybe people talked behind their backs. But there were a few who, there was a few intermarriages. I know one family, a family friend of ours, had a daughter who married out of Japanese. But it was a slow process of integration.

SF: Were most of the marriages sort of arranged in those days, or were they purely romantic?

AH: I think we tried to stake out on our own and find our own spouses, more or less. And there were a number of them who did not, and waited until their parents or some other friend suggested a good partner. Personally, I found my own. And the question came up with my family -- I'm sure it did with her family too -- is that, first thing, what ken or kenjinkai were they from? You know, for the Isseis that was very important. To go out of your ken to get married, and then, I'm sure that their family immediately investigated my family, and my family inquired about their family in Japan. And they didn't find anything that was too alarming. And so we got a, what they call a nakodo, what do you call that, an inter-person that would make the arrangements. And went ahead with it. And got good friends with the family. But little by little they broke away from the old Japanese customs, couldn't help it in this country.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 1997 Densho. All Rights Reserved.