<Begin Segment 21>

TI: Well, so let's talk about the things you do remember. So running around camp, how much of that can you describe for me? So what was that like, and what time of day?

SM: Well, usually it was early in the morning. And I know I used to be one of the leaders, you know, leading the group. But that's about it.

BT: Well, how did that happen? That you were leading the group, do you remember that?

SM: Well, I used to do that in Manzanar.

BT: Oh.

SM: Yeah, I used to do the exercise group, I didn't know anything about leading. But like some of the guys, especially the Kibeis, they knew how to, how they exercise in Japan. And I guess I learned from them about what kind of exercise they do.

TI: And so once you saw that, because you're an athlete, you could easily show other people how to do it.

SM: Yeah, more or less. I guess I was just chosen to lead the group or something like that, I guess.

BT: But it started out from Manzanar.

SM: Oh, yeah.

BT: And was that, like, the Seinendan in Manzanar?

SM: Yeah, something like that.

BT: And it was mostly that you were interested in getting the exercise, or were you interested in the group's thinking?

SM: Well, it was a lot of things combined. Protest and whatever you want to call it.

TI: And so when you did this at Manzanar, was there any disapproval by the administration or the people when they saw your group exercising?

SM: I imagine there must have been. But I guess they left us alone, I guess.

TI: Because at this point, when you're doing this, you had already, were already, I guess, designated to go to Tule Lake?

SM: Oh, no. I think this was even before that.

TI: Interesting. And then, so in a similar way, so you were able to train people at Manzanar, so you remember doing the same thing at Tule Lake?

SM: Well, I guess that's what happened. [Laughs]

TI: How about the size of the group? Manzanar versus Tule Lake, do you recall more people at Tule Lake than Manzanar doing the exercise, or was it about the same?

SM: Well, of course, Tule Lake, I think there was a bigger group. Because it was people that had the same feeling that were brought there. Like in Manzanar, I think the group was a lot smaller.

TI: How about in terms of what people wore when they exercised, Manzanar versus Tule?

SM: What did we wear?

BT: A gray sweatshirt, the stencil of the rising sun?

SM: Yeah, somebody showed me that, but I don't remember that.

BT: You didn't shave your head?

SM: Well, I didn't shave it, but I think it was cut off, you know. [Laughs]

TI: And do you recall maybe the feeling? Was there a, when you had this group together doing exercises and maybe chanting, do you remember any of the feelings, like a good feeling or anything like that?

SM: [Laughs] I don't know whether it was good or bad, but I guess the anger part of yourself, you know, shows in your action, I think.

TI: So we're right at the end right now, so I'm going to end --

BT: One more question.

TI: Okay, go ahead.

BT: There is, I guess, a lot of people talk about how they were forced to be in the Hoshidan. Do you think that a lot of the young people who were doing the exercises in the morning were being forced?

SM: There could have been some.

BT: By, forced by who?

SM: Well, their parents, or older people or whatever. But I couldn't say.

BT: But for people to be participating in this activity, do you think that they wanted to do it?

SM: Well, most of 'em wanted to do it. But I imagine there were some that were pushed. [Laughs]

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.