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Title: Yuri Kochiyama Interview
Narrator: Yuri Kochiyama
Interviewer: Megan Asaka
Location: Oakland, California
Date: July 21, 2009
Densho ID: denshovh-kyuri-01-0014

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MA: I wanted to ask you about when you first met Malcolm X. And in your memoirs that you wrote, you said that meeting him was one of the most important --

YK: Oh, definitely.

MA: -- things in your life. Can you tell that story about when you first met him in the courthouse?

YK: I'm trying to think what the date was. I remember it was... maybe you know.

MA: '63?

YK: Was it October?

MA: I don't know the month. I think it was, was it 1963?

YK: Uh-huh. During the summer of '63, the biggest demonstrations were in Brooklyn. It was a fight for jobs for black and Puerto Ricans. They were building, I think, a big hospital in Brooklyn, carpenters and all, and they were hiring only whites. And so the whole summer, we demonstrated. And about seven hundred people were arrested during that whole summer. And then when summer was over, then the hearings began. And even for, with seven hundred arrested, I don't know if there were other Asians who were arrested. I don't know if they were interested in that kind of thing. But you know, I don't know how many each day would get a summons to go to the court, maybe fifty or what, but the hearings started after the summer, so maybe from September on.

And one day, it was such a surprise, Malcolm walked through the door in the Brooklyn courts. And everybody was so surprised to Malcolm come walking in. All the black activists, they were young, like eighteen to twenty-five, they all ran over to Malcolm and circled him. They were shaking hands. Of course, you know, Malcolm was very well-known then. And I see all these black people, I thought, "Gee, I want to shake his hands, too." But I thought, "Gee, maybe it's not right for me 'cause I'm not black and somebody's not going to like that, wondering why an Asian wants to do that." So, but I kept watching all the young blacks, and I said, "Doggone it, I'm gonna somehow, I'm gonna shake his hand." Actually, I thought, "Boy, wait 'til I get home and tell my kids that I shook hands with Malcolm." I mean, my kids were already activists when they were teenagers, but they weren't there. And I thought, "Well, no matter what, I'm going to at least try." I asked one of the people in CORE, that group named CORE, and they said, well, they don't know what he's gonna tell you. "He may not want to shake your hand. It's up to you, you could try and see what happens." So I thought to myself, "I am gonna try." And so I thought, if he ever looks up a little bit towards where I'm standing, I'm gonna yell out to him, "Can I shake your hand?" And when he did, I did do that. I said, " Malcolm, can I shake your hand?" And he looked at me, I think he was surprised it was an Asian woman anyway. And said, "What for?" And I said, gosh, what do I say? I said, "I want to congratulate you." I don't know why I said that. And he said, "For what?" And I said, gee, gosh, what do I want to congratulate him for? And I said, "For what you're doing for your people." And he said, "And what am I doing for my people?" I thought, oh, now what shall I say? And I said, I couldn't think of anything else, but I said, "Giving direction." And then he really changed his attitude and he came out of the circle of people around him and put out his hand. So I ran and I grabbed it. And then I said something very stupid. I mean, I said, "I admire what you're doing, but I don't agree with you about everything." That's stupid. Here I don't know anything, and I have the nerve to tell the greatest black leader, "I don't agree with you." And he said, "What don't you agree with me about?" And I said, "Your harsh stand on..."

MA: Integration?

YK: "Integration," yeah. And he said, "Well, I don't have time to talk to you," but he said, "If you're really interested," he said, "you could call my secretary and make an appointment." But then, right after he said, "You wouldn't know where my office is." And I said, "Oh, yes, I do." I said, "I live in Harlem, too. Your office is on 125th and 7th, and I live at 126th and Broadway. It's only a couple blocks away." He was surprised, he said, "All right, make an appointment." And I knew who his secretary was, James Shabazz, so I said, "Okay." Although that never happened, I don't think. Because I think by November, he made, Malcolm made a statement that angered Elijah Muhammad. What was that statement? What was that, he made Elijah Muhammad angry? What was that statement he made?

MA: "The chickens come home to roost"? Was it that one?

YK: What?

MA: "The chickens come home to roost"?

YK: Oh, right, good. Yeah, when he said that "the chickens come home to roost," that Elijah thought that was very insulting. And so he said he's gonna silence him for three months, or something like that. And then during that time, Malcolm felt very bad. You know, he was one of the chief spokesmen, and to be silenced. But by that time, as the months went on, he felt that there were other things that he disagreed with Elijah. That Elijah was fooling around with women, getting young women pregnant and all that, and he thought he should go ahead and start another group, his own group, OAAU. So he, I think, called a press conference and made a clear break, and then said that he is starting this new group. And those who wanted to join, it's open to them. So, I guess... yeah.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.