<Begin Segment 9>

MA: We were talking about how Jerome, your transfer to Gila...

JH: Oh, okay. John told us later that when they came, there were Italians and Germans. And they said, "You guys were lucky, you had your cots. They jammed them in the rooms." You know, they weren't treated very humanely, I think.

MA: Okay, so then Jerome was being turned into something else.

JH: Yes, was converted to POW. So people, most of them went to Rohwer, which is north of Jerome. Others opted for other camps, but we went to Gila. How we ended up there, I have no idea, unless the Hawaii people got together and said they would rather go someplace where it's warm. That's the only reason I can think of, but a whole contingent of us left for Gila in Arizona.

MA: And how did Gila, I mean, compare with Jerome? What was your experience like at Gila?

JH: That's the first time I ever saw so much sand in my life. We had more freedom in Gila. There were two camps, Butte and Canal, and I remember there was two hills. One hill had the names of the men who were killed in action in the 442, and the other held this huge tank for the water. And then the Kibei and bachelors, every time it was summer, they would sit at the base, 'cause there's a little ledge like this, and the water would be dripping over, that's how they kept cool. So the difference is the weather was different. We had to use swamp coolers during the summer. It got very, very hot in the afternoons. But being kids, hey, I'm not gonna take a nap. So what we did was we would go into the laundry room and fill up the tubs. And so all us kids would get into each washbasin, you know, like we're swimming. And other times, some of the fathers dug cellars under the barracks. And I remember I went down with one of my playmates, and the scorpions were that huge, okay. And I found out the little ones are the ones that really kill you. But the big ones, if you knew 01-41:40 how to catch them, they're very interesting. So they would get bottles from the mess hall and put all the scorpions in, and I'm thinking, "What are you gonna do with it?" But it was nice not to have them close and sting me.

MA: So when you say you had more freedom in Gila, was that...

JH: You know, it was on the Indian reservation. And they harnessed the Gila River in order for, to use for water. We could go on picnics, and I know that there's two hills, and then there's about three more taller hills. So we went around that, and they had this Hawaii picnic as they called it. Now, I don't know where they got the food from, but they got the food.

MA: What food did they have?

JH: Usually sandwiches and... did they have musubi? 'Cause I know they served us rice. But I guess they just, they just congregated together, 'cause we lived close to each other in the camps, or in the same block.

MA: And did you go to school also in Gila? Did you attend elementary school?

JH: Uh-huh. I... well, my first and second grades were in Jerome, and then my third and partially fourth were in Arizona.

MA: So really the, most of your education up to that point had been in the camp, right? 'Cause you started school in Jerome.

JH: I started school in kindergarten, but that was the Hilo Hongwanji, they had their kindergarten class, and that's the one I attended just when I went into first grade, was when my mother was told that we have to leave. So when I got back to Hilo, it was like going to a foreign land, 'cause I knew nobody. I didn't have any... except the people that had come back with us.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.