<Begin Segment 9>

TI: And so I'm curious, it seems like your, especially your brother, had to grow up so fast.

MN: Yeah.

TI: Did you ever sense a change in him after your mother died in terms of him actually taking that responsibility? Do you recall a change in him?

MN: Just that we looked up to him because he was the one that was in charge of us. He never said, "You toe the line, 'cause I'm in charge," he never was that way. He was always a very gentle person. He ruled us with a voice, and this is what goes on and this is what doesn't go on, and we minded him. And the rest of the family, as we grew up, that's how we raised our children, the way he did.

TI: And you mentioned, to help support the family, he quit school and became, went into gardening.

MN: Yes, eventually became a gardener. And to this day, he's into gardening.

TI: And when he quit school, that was probably a big sacrifice for him to do.

MN: Oh, yes.

TI: Did you recall any other sacrifices that you thought to yourself, "Oh, my, he has to do this or sacrifice that to take care of the family"?

MN: I never thought of it as, my gosh, he's sacrificing to take care of us. We just took it as, well, in Japanese, atarimae, that he would take care of us, because he was the head of the family now. But we never thought that we were depriving him of anything, 'cause... maybe my sisters did, but I didn't, and my little sister didn't. So he eventually was able to join a bunch of guys who played baseball or something, that's what kept him going, because he was able to do things like what young boys were able to do in their late twenties, early twenties and stuff. But when we were growing up, when I was eight, ten years old, we just took it as for granted. He was the one that was supposed to be taken care of us. He was our father figure.

TI: Okay, and how about as he got older? Did he ever date?

MN: Yes. Eventually, he might have looked at some girls, but I can't remember his dating people, per se, as in, "I'm going to be out because I'm dating," or something. But he would come home, and my stepfather, I remember he was still living at our place, at our home, he would lock all the doors so they couldn't come in, he couldn't come home. 'Cause it was after hours, I guess maybe they had certain curfews. And, of course, he's knocking on the window, and we'd open the window and let him come in, because my father would have, stepfathers would have the doors locked. [Laughs] But I remember that, that a few times my sister and my brother used to come late. My father knew, stepfather knew that they were coming in, but father figure, you know, he would lock the door.

TI: And did your brother, it seems like there, you almost had two father figures in some ways, your stepfather and your brother. Did the two of them ever conflict?

MN: I don't know. I imagine they would have, but it was not visible to me. But after a while, I don't know how long it was after Mother passed away, my father moved out and went to live in a little tiny one-bedroom, one-room little cottage to amass enough money to go to Japan, and left the family and his son with our family to get by, and then he took the son and went back to Japan.

TI: And I'm sorry, where was that cottage again? Was it nearby?

MN: Yes, it's just walking distance.

TI: So why would that save money? It seemed like if he stayed...

MN: He didn't support us. He didn't have to support us to pay rent and all that.

TI: Oh, so that really fell to your brother then.

MN: So my brother had to do all that. Of course, the rent in those days must have been quite minimal, but to come up with the money must have been quite minimal, but to come up with the money was pretty hard. So we cooked for the family, and my stepfather cooked for himself. We used to go see him, 'cause we were little, we didn't have any animosity towards him, but my brother and sister had to step in and take care of all us when he was gone. But -- I should not say this -- but he was not the real father figure to us.

TI: Okay. Once your stepfather moved out, it would seem a little unusual to have this family unit with such a young man in charge. I mean, did you ever sense that the way you lived was a little bit different than your friends? That you didn't have, really, parents, but that your older brother was taking care of you? Did that ever come up, or did people ever...

MN: We didn't express it in a way, but we knew that our friends all had parents and they lived with parents. But I would think we felt a little bit more free, because we didn't have the real father and mother figure put their foot down and watch over us. But my brother being the kind of person he was, he was fair, he taught us things to do and not to do, so he was, I think we were fortunate.

TI: Well, that's what I wanted to get at. So the sense that you maybe were a little more free than...

MN: I think so.

TI: So did you at times think you were lucky because of the situation?

MN: No, that didn't enter our minds. Maybe it was because we thought, well, atarimae, you know, it's supposed to be.

TI: Earlier you mentioned that you had this guardian in, I guess, west L.A. that would come by. How about other neighbors or other people that, any other memories of acts of kindness or anything?

MN: I can't remember. Maybe my brother and sister might know, but I do remember that that's what we were given, was foodstuff for Christmas. And when my guardians would come over, they would have little goodies for us, but I can't remember what or when or how often. And they eventually went back to Japan, and so we lost touch with them.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.