<Begin Segment 18>

TI: Earlier you talked about sort of growing up in Venice, how, I guess how poor you were. You didn't have much money. And then you go to camp. And one of the things that I hear when people went to camp, that before the war, there was... I don't want to say classes, but there were, some people in the Japanese American community and money and others didn't. But that when they went to places like Manzanar, there was what they would call like a leveling effect?

MN: Yes.

TI: That all of a sudden, money didn't matter because everyone lived in similar situations, ate the same food. Did you feel that when you were there, that all of a sudden...

MN: I did not feel that there was a class difference before and during camp or anything. But I noticed that people who went there, who had more wealth, were able to do things like send for things, nice material, or extra food or something like that, and they were able to live more comfortably. But I never felt any jealousy towards that, because we were fed. And you can't say we were clothed, but it was more like an equal thing. And we did have friends who were of that upper, more or less upper class, but they never lorded it over us, 'cause we just got along fine.

TI: And when you say more of an equal thing, more equal than it was before the war started?

MN: Yes, yes. Uh-huh.

TI: And so before the war you felt a bigger difference?

MN: Yeah, but it didn't bother us. 'Cause it was a way of life for us, I mean, what else is there for us to expect? So we never felt that, "Oh, that person has really got it great," and we had to deprive ourselves or we're deprived or whatever. We never felt that way. I guess because we were so happy-go-lucky. [Laughs]

TI: So it's not that I'm trying to say one's better than the other, I'm just trying to get a sense of how camp maybe leveled things a little bit. So what would be an example? I mean, besides food, so even thought it leveled, what I'm hearing is that people who did have money were able to bring in things to make their lives a little more comfortable. Do you recall anything specific that you recall someone, like a neighbor or something got that you said, "Oh, that's really nice?"

MN: No, I don't remember, just little different things like they were able to send for nicer shoes or more expensive things from Sears Roebuck because they had the money. But whenever I got a pair of saddle oxford shoes, I said, "Whoa, I'm queen of the hop." But they were able to do that more freely.

TI: And besides those shoes, what are some other things that you or your family members ordered?

MN: Fabric and things that we were able to... what is that word? Get a sewing machine from -- the block had one recreation type place where you were able to borrow, rent out -- not rent, but just borrow ironing boards and irons and sewing machines on a time schedule. So with that, my sister was able to make skirts and things like that for us. Otherwise, you have to send for ready-made things to Sears and that cost quite a bit more. So that's how we were clothed during the camp time, (by) buying material. And then one time I remember my brother's former employer (where) he was a gardener, used to send fabric to him to give to me for a graduation present or something so that I could have something made. I mean, they were very sweet people, they even kept my brother's car for him, and put it on the block and bring it down and run it. But that's the kind of people that were so good to us. And so that's how we did, we just sent for things from Sears Roebuck when we were able to.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.