<Begin Segment 14>

MA: And you stayed in Chicago for a number of years, right?

LN: Uh-huh. And then my parents opened up a restaurant, they started a restaurant business.

MA: And this was a Japanese restaurant?

LN: Uh-huh, Japanese restaurant. And then, oh, yeah, my sister worked there, I didn't. So I stayed, I worked at different places, all kinds of places. I got used to it. At first, it was very hard to be a real minority like Japanese going to a white company. And I thought, "Oh, gosh, I hate this." But you get used to anything.

MA: I imagine, too, going from Hawaii, where it was a lot, predominately Japanese, to then going to Chicago where... racial dynamics must have been so different. It seems like it was white and black, and then Japanese were there, too.

LN: Right, on top of that. But then they say it was worse in California, you see. Many people didn't even want to, people who came from California didn't go back to California immediately. They all moved to the east, Chicago. 'Cause somehow... well for one thing, there was work. They needed the labor force. And somehow people out that way were less inclined to be racist.

MA: In the Midwest and East Coast versus, like, California?

LN: That's right. Because a lot of people who came from California were still in Chicago.

MA: Right, they stayed and never went back.

MA: Well, they said eventually they're going back. They said they all had plans to go back, but they didn't want to go back from hearing about it from their friends. "Don't rush back here. People are still not that open to Japanese." So it must have been very hard.

MA: That's interesting. I always wonder why in somewhere like California, especially after the war, there was such, still, anti-Japanese sentiment. And you don't get that as much in places like Chicago.

LN: Yeah. Well, for one thing, all that came from the fact that the Japanese were, well, agriculture and the fishing industry was mainly Japanese, right, until the war. And so when the Japanese went back to California, a lot of people felt threatened by them. That you have this "horde" of Japanese coming back, and they're gonna take over again. They controlled it pretty well before the war. But when you go east and all that, we're not a threat to them. In fact, it's a labor force that they needed. So it was much nicer, very good. [Laughs]

[Interruption]

MA: I was wondering if you could talk about living in Chicago, and the Japanese American community there, if there was a Japantown, and what that was like.

LN: Oh, you know, what did we do in Chicago? We had a restaurant, right? So we didn't really become that entrenched in the community at that time. 'Cause you know how it is when you're in business, you're there all the time from morning to night and all that sort of thing. So that was about it. And I had no idea what was going on. But the one thing I did was... you know, I was always a musician, shamisen. So then I heard there's this woman who's teaching shamisen in Chicago. So I said, "Oh, I think I'll go and see what it's like." She was on the south side. I found out about it from my girlfriend who I worked with in the insurance company. So she said, "Yeah, my mother-in-law teaches," but she said, "I don't think, I don't know how much you play, but you could probably teach her." [Laughs] So I says, "Well, no, I don't know." So I went, but yeah, sure enough, she said, "Oh, I just teach obachans," you know, all these obachans. "I can't teach you," she said. She said, "But you could go to Seattle, because that's where my teacher is." And she said, "You should probably go for your masterclass over there with her, 'cause she's very good." So I said, "Okay." So I went to Seattle for, like an apprentice, Japanese-style. I stayed there about three or four months. You have to clean the studio and do all that kind of thing. [Laughs] Yeah, she's very Japanese. 'Cause even in Japan, if you go as an apprentice, that's what you have to go through. So, but she's very good, and I had a lot of respect for her. So we got started, and she said, "Yeah," she said, "in about three or four months," she said, "I'll give you your master's certificate," she said. So I said, "Oh, great." I was very excited about that, yeah. So that's why I was in Seattle.

MA: And you ended up getting your master's certificate in shamisen?

LN: Uh-huh, that's right.

MA: Did you ever teach?

LN: Uh-huh. And when I went back to Chicago, then I taught all the way until I moved.

MA: Tell me about your son. When was he born and what is his name?

LN: Eric, and he was born in... it's terrible. '57? No, it can't be. Yeah, it must be. If he was '57, how old would he be now?

MA: Fifty-two?

LN: Okay, then it must be '57.

MA: 1957.

LN: [Laughs] Oh, it's awful. I can't even remember when he was born.

MA: Oh, no, that's okay.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.