<Begin Segment 10>

MA: And what about high school? So you, probably your education was interrupted by the war. And then did you resume high school in Jerome?

LN: Uh-huh, yes. Jerome, and then we went to Heart Mountain, we moved to Heart Mountain, and that's where I graduated. Well, actually, I got out a year before. Because we left camp in 1945. But they had summer school. It's so funny, they had summer school, so they said, "Oh, you can skip one grade by going to summer school." So I said, "Okay, I'll do that." And when I did, what did I take? Art and all that, all the things I liked. And that was my credit for that whole grade that I skipped.

MA: And this was summer school in camp?

LN: Yeah, summer school in camp. It was nice. [Laughs] Because I remember it was all art class. In fact, one of the teachers, she was into ceramics, and she said, "Oh, good, you're the only student that I have, so we'll work on ceramics." So I said, "Oh, that's good, because I don't know anything about ceramics." The drawing and painting part is okay. So anyway, I enjoyed summer school, going to summer school. At that time, I didn't have any friends, because we had just moved to Heart Mountain. So it was nice that way. But I met this one student, I never forgot her. She was Hawaiian, I mean, she came -- we called each other Hawaiian and all that, although we're not Hawaiians. But anyway, that's how they were, they could differentiate people. Either you're from the mainland, or you're from Hawaii. Well, I remember going to school, summer school, right. And in between summer classes, I thought, "Gee, what am I gonna do? I don't know anybody here." And there aren't too many people going to summer school.

But there was this one girl in the library, and she was, she was a tomboy. Either she was lesbian or whatever, but anyway, she was different. [Laughs] But she was, she said, "Aren't you Hawaiian?" And I said, "Yeah, how can you tell?" She goes, "Course I can tell." She said, "You talk funny." And she was so funny, she was interesting person. And I said... because she was a girl, really, but she had a boy cut, and she never wore dresses. In fact, one day she took me to her house because she had to pick up something, this was on the way to school. And her sister came out and she said, "Oh, good, I'm so glad she has a friend who wears dresses." She said, "I want you to talk to Butch" -- her name was Butch, too, she refuses to have a regular English name. She said, "I want you to talk to Butch as much as you can, okay? Try to get her out of this thing about being a guy and all that." So I said, "Oh, I don't know if I can do that." But she said, she was so worried about her. I understand she became a lesbian later, many, many years later I saw her in Chicago.

MA: Really?

LN: Uh-huh. So I guess she had leaning towards that. But anyway, it was nice. She was my first friend, and she was funny, too. 'Cause she'd always say, "You talk funny." She said, "Say 'girl,'" and I would say it. She said, "See? It sounds so funny." She says, "Boy, you Hawaiians don't even speak English." She used to say stuff like that. But actually, she is from Hawaii, but long, long ago, they moved to the mainland and she started becoming a tomboy. And never, I don't know what happened, but her sister was so concerned, because they didn't have a family, it was just her and her sister. I think her parents were in Japan.

MA: Well, it must have been hard for your friend at a time when everyone was so conforming to these gender norms.

LN: I know, it must have been really hard for her, and the sister, too, right?

MA: Right.

LN: But Butch was carefree as ever. [Laughs] In fact, she was a total guy. And I was very naive, I didn't know about all those kind of things. So she used to come over to our house to pick me up to go to school, and then when we went to those high school dances, she would say, "Why do you want to go to those dances for?" And I said, "No, it's fun. I do want to go." She said, "Okay. But I'm going to dance with you, okay?" she'll say. And so she was a regular guy. And then my mother, I remember my mother had some concern. 'Cause she asked me one time, she said, "Do you have other friends? Do you have other friends besides Butch?" And I said, "Yeah, but she's my best friend." And she said, "Oh," she said, "well, you should try to spread yourself around." She didn't say too much, but I thought, "Gee, I wonder why she was so concerned." But I guess now, I can see where... because she has, she had this strong lesbian tendency. Because I met her, you know, later, many, many years later in Chicago.

MA: And did you talk about, did you sort of reminisce at all?

LN: No, I didn't, she wouldn't talk to me, I think because she was with this group of people. And she was definitely a les, and she didn't... I don't know why, but she didn't want to have anything to do with me. We had a restaurant at that time, so they came as the customer and I wanted to talk to her. And my sister said, "That's Butch, huh?" And I said, "Yeah." I said, "I don't know, she's very aloof." So I couldn't understand it. But then, in a way, I can. Because I think maybe she was already, she had already decided what she was, and she wasn't sure how I was going to maybe...

MA: Yeah, maybe it was like a defense mechanism or something.

LN: I think so, I know. So it was so sad, because I thought, "Gee, I didn't really get a chance to know her."

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.