<Begin Segment 7>

MA: You mentioned that Torrance was pretty much an all white, it was very white.

IK: Very, very white.

MA: And it's interesting because Gardena is, was, a lot of Japanese Americans living there at the time.

IK: Right.

MA: Do you know why there was such a discrepancy in terms of demographics?

IK: I really -- a friend of mine who was on the state assembly and was city councilman for, like, sixteen years in Torrance, I know he always talks about how the city of Torrance welcomed the Japanese back. And I've never, I should ask him about it. I've never questioned about that, because my understanding, it always was -- and I'm not sure where I got the understand, maybe it was just talk among my father and his friends -- my understanding was that Torrance didn't really want us there. They didn't really want anybody who was not white. And my understanding is that Gardena was more open, and that's why there were so many. It's kind of like one moves in and they keep moving in. And I mentioned, too, that I know for a fact that at Torrance High there was only one black kid. And they were... let's see, it was in the early '50s when the tracks came. 'Cause when we first moved there, from 182nd all the way to 190th, there was nothing, just us. And all the acres from us to 190th, somebody had planted lima beans every year. Because after they harvested the crop, then we would go through the property and pick up all the leftover lima beans that were still on the ground, and then my mother would pack it and send it to Japan.

So somewhere, like I said, in the early '50s, these little box houses, the tract homes, started popping up. And the one that was right next to us on the street was a biracial couple, black mother and a white father. And the kid was really white. He did not have the black look. He had the curly hair, but he was very white. And it wasn't until later that... 'cause we didn't talk. 'Cause our property, the driveway and everything, so it was not a neighborly thing that was there where you would be talking to people living next to you. But I do remember hearing that they were harassed so much that they moved out. And that was one family, and the kid looked white. And for the longest time, I don't remember seeing any black kids or adults. But I do remember, my kids, where we are, it's southeast Torrance, so that's where Torrance High is, the first high school. And I think it was after, might have been after my daughter graduated, which would have been somewhere around '89. But one of my friends who's from Hawaii, she's JA, she told me that this mother, she's white, and she's a real talker. Funny lady, you're always laughing with her. But she was dead serious when -- and then my friend was in that conversation at that time. She said, "Guess what Sue said? She said, 'Oh, my god. There are enough black kids at Torrance High now to have a club.'" She was just appalled that there were enough of them to have a club. And a lot of families we know moved out. Not a whole lot, because still, Torrance was still an attractive city to move to.

MA: It started out rural, it sounds like.

IK: Yeah, very. We were really country, more than Gardena.

MA: Really? Okay. And then over the years, obviously, now, it's commercial and more industrial, urban.

IK: Oh, very. Right.

MA: When did that change start happening?

IK: It has to be the '50s, early '50s. In fact, it probably started with the time the tracks started coming in. So, again, I'm guesstimating the time, it has to be around 1953, that point. Because in 1957, Torrance was named... they had that all-American city for population, what was it, 100,000? Gardena never has had that, even today. I think they're still at around 50, 60,000. And so, but of course they're constrained by boundaries. They don't really have room, whereas Torrance started off with this huge, much bigger area. Gardena was always kind of already contained in a certain area. I think that must be the reason. That's why they don't really have the industry that Torrance has, all the commercial. There is no major shopping center in Gardena.

MA: But when you were growing up, was Gardena where you went for, like, the Japanese language school?

IK: Exactly. Even now, even now. Torrance has... because I think they're at 150,000, somewhere around there, and they have Toyota, Honda, and the Del Amo shopping center and all those. And all the major restaurants, big hotels. But it's always been, as far as the JA community, non-JA. Not a church, and usually a church is always part of a community, right? There are a lot of Korean churches now, but they're a much, much later group. They move in and they're all over Gardena, the Korean churches. And in Torrance, too. You drive down any of the major streets, what used to be a business is now a Korean church. What used to be, I think it was like a Mormon temple or something right there on Cabrillo is now a Korean church. So as a community, they've really come in. But to this day, there still really isn't... there are a couple churches. Boundary-wise, they're considered, like, Torrance. But they're so much into Gardena that I really don't think of it as Gardena-Gardena, I mean, Torrance-Torrance. Faith United Methodist Church is by Nijiya Market on Van Ness and 182nd, but the next street over, you're already into Gardena. So no church, no temple, no community center, nothing. Our historical society is about the only thing that can claim Torrance. But that's because we lived in Torrance, I live in Torrance, our PO Box is there. The meetings are at my house, that kind of a thing. So just by residence. So I always tell everybody, "Yeah, we're Torrance-based." But, in terms of, I would say... it goes up and down, it changes. But in terms of where we get more support for our activities, it's outside of Torrance. They come from all over, but it's not the Torrance group.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.