<Begin Segment 11>

MA: You know, I was wondering if we could talk a little bit about... when we previously talked, you mentioned the way that we remember the internment collectively, the consciousness of the Issei. And how you see with the Sanseis and the Yonseis, that consciousness is just much different in the way that we talk about the internment and are much more, sort of, vocal about it. Can you talk about that, sort of, change? I don't know, you said that no one really talked about the internment, right? When you were growing up, your parents didn't talk about it, no one talked about it. And I think in the, sort of, '80s, '90s, after the Asian American movement became much more of a conscious thing, a public thing. And can you talk a little bit about that change?

IK: Yeah. I think, if I understand, you're asking the contrast between the generation of the Issei, Nisei, to now with really... the Sanseis kind of sandwiched in between, and then the Yonsei, Gosei. Really, it's partly cultural. The young people now, they're growing up, and all they've ever known is America. All they've ever known is being able to do what they want, say what they want, and they really don't have the same attitude of gaman, of putting things aside for another time, or maybe putting things aside forever, because it's going to hurt somebody else. And so they were quick to -- I mean, I don't think anymore, but initially, there was that, kind of that beginning period of, almost like with the Jews. How could you walk into the... and people, when you're not there, you don't know the fear. And it's almost like hope. "Oh, if I cooperate, everything will be okay." And so for people to maybe even comment about the lack of backbone is really not right and it's not fair, and it's really not too mature. Because they're saying, "Times are good for me now. I wouldn't go to camp." And also with the Issei -- and that's why we have what we call "Issei values." They're so ingrained. Are there Yonsei values? I don't think so. I don't know if anybody would even come to an agreement, saying that, "These are the Yonsei values," or the Sansei values. But with the Issei, it's really clear. And with that Japanese American family book that we're doing, when the Nisei write, very clear. They can name a dozen examples. And so when it came to Pearl Harbor and the eventual removal to the concentration camps, fear was the main thing. That drove everything. And that fear brought in the so-called, the gaman, shikata ga nai. "Put up with it, what can we do? And let's just do the best we can." And it was a way of survival. And that was the whole thing. Even postwar, it was to survive. Because if you didn't work, you didn't have any food or clothing, nothing.

And so the difference between the Issei, Nisei, Sansei, Yonsei, whatever comes later if we keep naming them by numbers, it's really a difference in time, times are different, it's a difference in cultural traits, it's a difference in how they grew up. And so I think all the Issei, if they were still here, and the Nisei, I think what they would just be happy about is for the younger generations to really understand what happened, and that there was no choice. Of course, there were a few, you know, like Min Yasui and Korematsu and Hirabayashi. You had the handful here and there, maybe others that didn't even hit the law books. But again, too, they were Nisei. They had the language capabilities for one, which the Issei didn't. So I think it's hard to talk about differences other than to say that times were different.

MA: How do you think the Asian American movement, the impact of that, I guess, on you personally? And also just on how, as a community, we remember the internment? I just feel like the Asian American movement had such an impact on education, on classes that someone like me, I could take, that were available to me in college.

IK: Definitely. I think the movement was very instrumental and important in people hearing others talk about it, even if they didn't talk about it themselves. Even if maybe they were even embarrassed, as some, I'm sure, were. Because remember when the subject of reparations/redress came out, huge number of people said, "Oh, my god. How can you do that? How shameful." And yet they took it when it finally happened, I'm sure. [Laughs] And so I think the Asian American movement definitely was real key to my kids feeling like they are Americans and they have every right to the rights of everybody else, and so does everybody else have the same rights. And, in fact, my daughter started the Asian American Studies (minor) at Cal State Fullerton. So she worked with Dr. Art Hansen. It was in her senior year, so she didn't get to reap the fruit of her labor. I didn't know until just a few... talk about not talking, I didn't know that she was so in awe of UCLA that... I guess because UCLA had this look, this huge campus. And she told me that she used to go there all the time to absorb the atmosphere, to sit around and all this. And so then one day Glenn Omatsu, who's the history professor, lecturer at CSUN, told her, "What are you doing here? You could go back to Fullerton and do something." And so that's what she did. And so now they have the Asian American Studies Department.

[Interruption]

So I think, to close the question of the importance of the Asian American movement, is that it was politically very important and necessary to even get to the point of redress. It was important in giving some credibility and validity to courses, because it's at the university level now, which makes, I think, the secondary schools have to kind of address things if they're in those areas. And it's really important for the psyche, I think, of the young people, to feel that, "Hey, this is good, good stuff." And it gives them... so they're not ashamed. They don't have to sit there with a pink face like we did in the sixth grade.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.