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MA: So what was, what was Chicago like, I mean, when you first arrived? What were your impressions of the city?

GK: Well, I just thought it was a huge city, and I wasn't quite used to that. But then I started working right away at the Church Federation of Greater Chicago in downtown Chicago. So we took the El train every day, we had an apartment on the south side, and we took the train in every day. And it was a Christian office, Church Federation, so everybody was nice and we enjoyed it. I first was secretary to a person in charge of relations, public relations, so that was enjoyable. I liked that field because it dealt with people. So I worked for this Reverend Weatherbee, but then after a while, then he decided to go back to Boston where he was from. So then the head of the Church Federation said, "Well, Grace, would you like to be the office manager?" So I thought, oh, that was a nice opportunity, but then I foolishly decided to go to another office, and that was a bad mistake. I should have just stayed there. So then, shortly thereafter, I got married, so I didn't work there for a while. Then we moved to New York.

MA: Going back a little bit, you said you lived in the south side. Was that, at the time, a primarily black neighborhood or was it Japanese?

GK: No, no. See, that neighborhood changed after we lived there. Because it was near the University of Chicago where we lived, and in fact, Eugene was a student there working for his PhD degree. So, no, there were Japanese families and other Caucasian families, but it was not primarily black like it is now.

MA: Oh, okay.

GK: The neighborhood changed completely in years after that.

MA: And was there like a Japantown in Chicago at that time? I know it became a destination for a lot of people coming out of the camps.

GK: Yes. There was an area there on Clark and Division, somewhere in there, where there were Japanese shops and offices and so forth, yes. And grocery stores, so it was nice. We had someplace that (we) would go to for Japanese things. But there was nothing on the south side, but it was sort of near downtown Chicago.

MA: And did your family, your mother and your sisters, were you pretty set on staying in Chicago? Was there ever any talk about going back to California or to the West Coast?

GK: No, because we had no one left in California. My father was buried there for the time being, but then we had his ashes brought to Chicago so that we could all be together. So we really didn't have any ties anywhere, no relatives or anything in California. So, yes, we just decided Chicago was where we were going to stay.

MA: And you did have that uncle living in Chicago, so you did have some family in that area.

GK: Right.

MA: And what, I mean, before you met your husband, what did you do for social activities? Was there, like, a community place where Japanese could go and socialize, or what were some activities that you would do?

GK: I know I belonged to a girls' club, and there were several girl's clubs like that. So it was nice, there were about a dozen of us gals who met regularly. And then sometimes we would go out for dinner after work, so it was nice to meet some other Japanese. And then we joined the JACL chapter, and that way we got to meet other Japanese, you know. So it was nice. I mean, we didn't feel lonely or anything, because there was a network of Japanese Americans in Chicago.

MA: And the JACL, what types of things were they doing at that time? I mean, I know part of it was social, but were they doing other activities?

GK: Yes, I think they were working toward civil rights or human rights matters. And I'm trying to think if the redress matter was... at that time, no, they had not started it. It came afterwards, you know. But that was a good organization for Japanese Americans, because you could meet others like yourself there. And it happened that the president of that chapter was (Shig Wakamatsu), Eugene knew him because they had taken a chemistry course together at the University of Chicago. (...) His sister was really my best friend in Chicago, and she and her minister came to call on us when we first moved there. The minister (was) from the local Baptist church. So they came to visit us, and we became good friends. We still are good friends.

MA: What is her name?

GK: Toshie Suyama. And her brother is Shig Wakamatsu.

MA: And where was she from? Was she in camp and then had resettled to Chicago?

GK: She was from the state of Washington. She must have gone to camp, I really don't know. She must have, though, if she lived in Seattle. I don't know what camp, though.

MA: I was just wondering if you talked about camp at that time with your friends or your family. Was there any talk about camp and what you went through, or did people just...

GK: (...) You're talking about at that time?

MA: Yeah, like when you were in Chicago, kind of in the years after the war.

GK: Oh. No, we didn't really talk about it. It's a strange phenomenon, that for a long time, we who went through the evacuation, we never talked about it. Maybe it was such an unpleasant experience that we just sort of buried it, you know, and didn't even mention it. So no, we didn't talk about it.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright ©2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.