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TI: I bet, going back to these Issei men, you probably did get this different perspective. Because, I mean, your father's your father, so he's going to be a certain way with you and the family environment. And now you're out with five Issei men, so they're probably a lot -- what's the right word? -- looser or more open about things.

TO: Oh, definitely.

TI: So did they do things like singing and storytelling or joking a lot more?

TO: Yeah, there was a lot of joking. For some reason, they were very compatible men. I think they kind of knew each other. Of course, most of them were from this area anyway. There was this Mr. Otani and I forgot what this other gentleman was. But he was a carpenter. But any event, they were very compatible and they joked around and laughed. And I know, I think they made a Japanese bath up there because we had no means of, you know. [Laughs] They had this cabin, but there was no way of taking baths. So I think they built that Japanese, typical Japanese farmers' bath that they all knew how to do.

TI: Well, I just want to -- 'cause later on we're going to talk about the beginning of Issei Concerns, but it seemed like this was a great opportunity for you to really get to know Issei men that perhaps a lot of other Niseis didn't have that opportunity.

TO: Probably, probably so. I never, I didn't realize it and to this day I don't look at it, but I'm sure it must have affected me in a manner that I don't really realize how much it did change my feelings towards them.

TI: Yeah, I was just wondering, just seeing the Isseis more as just people, as individuals rather than kind of more far away generation that spoke Japanese and didn't know them. That this seemed like it was just a rich opportunity for you.

TO: Yeah, yeah. I didn't take advantage of it, it just happened, I guess, if that's the perspective you're looking at, I don't recall any. But I enjoyed working with them, though.

TI: But you, so you did this, you said, about a year, you worked there?

TO: Yeah. And then the... I think his name was Mr. Nakatsuka, he was a farmer here in the Kent valley. But anyway, he was also a carpenter. And I don't know, they all decided that they were gonna quit and go back to camp. So we all went at the same time and went back to camp. And Mr. Nakatsuka being a carpenter, there was a dairy in Powell, Wyoming, that caught on fire, and they came to camp to see if there were some carpenters that could, that could help rebuild it. So this Mr. Nakatsuka called me and talked to me and says, "Do you want to go?" I said, "Yeah, but I'm not a carpenter or anything." Well, he said, "You're going to be a carpenter. I'll tell 'em you're a carpenter." [Laughs] Because laborers' and carpenters' pay was a little different. Well, I wasn't a carpenter. Most of the work we do, they wouldn't know whether you're a carpenter or not because we had to tear out all the burnt part of the building, it didn't take any skills to do that. And we did rebuild it. And it was interesting, I think the manager of that dairy, he must have been an alcoholic because as we were cleaning up the burnt part of the building, there was half-drank bottles of liquor all over that place. And so, of course, the Issei, I think it was essentially the same crew that was up in, up in the sawmill that we were together. And they all liked to drink, so they'd ask them to buy the liquor for them. And he knew the, manager knew the local liquor store or whatever, and so I think it might have -- I don't know if it was rationed or anything, but they got all the, all the liquor they wanted. So I thought, "Well, buy a few bottles and take it for my dad, you know, so he could sell it in camp." But I found out he didn't sell it, just called all his buddies over and they had a big party. [Laughs] So I never took any booze home after that to him.

TI: Was that because your mother probably got mad at you? [Laughs]

TO: Yeah.

TI: That's interesting. When you were in Powell, what kind of living arrangements did you have in Powell?

TO: I think it was much better than at the, up at the logging camp. But I think it was more of a bunkhouse type of thing. I don't remember anything, not too much about it, and I don't remember... I think we must have, might have did our own cooking there. One of the Issei men did the cooking.

TI: Going back to the logging camp, how close did you get to the family that you were working for? Did you guys do much with them? You mentioned they had kids, was there much interaction?

TO: No, not much. Well, yeah, we worked during the days, and the nighttimes we went to the bunkhouse and that was about it. So the only time was, mealtime was the only time we had, talked to them or anything. And this owner, he was a pretty... I don't know. He wasn't a racist, but he felt that there was a place for us and a place for them. So we weren't to be getting too much involved.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.