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TI: Okay. But 1947, your parents are in Renton, and so what do you do when you get back to Seattle?

TO: Well, you know, at that time, we had that GI Bill, so I decided that... at the time that I went to high school, they had two programs, one for college preparatory and one for business or farming. And I took the business course instead of the... so there were some classes that I had to take to get into college. So I thought, well, I had some thoughts about going to college at that time, so I went to Broadway-Edison at that time to take some classes, and I think I had, I don't know, English or History or some boring classes. And I said, "If this is what college is, I'm not going to make it." So then right across the street was that mechanic's... so I had some experiences in the army, so I thought, "Well, I'll go over there and take the mechanics course," which I did.

TI: Okay, so you went to school. And then after that, what did you do?

TO: Oh, that was, that was where things got a little different. You know, the hakujin guys, the Caucasian classmates, when we graduated, they all got jobs right away as apprentices. Because at that time, to be a full-fledged mechanic, you had to have two years of schooling and I think a couple years apprenticeship. And all the dealerships and the shops were crying for help because the economy was turning around. And so they tell me, "Hey, come on down to my shop. They're crying for mechanics," and I did that twice. And they said, "Well, we'd be happy to hire you, but do you belong to a union?" "No." "Well, go join the union." So I went down to the union and they said, well, they told me twice, two different guys, "Well, we got a lot of guys on the waiting list, so when that waiting list is depleted, then we'll let you join." So I got the message.

TI: So which union was this?

TO: That was the 289 International Association of Machinists, I think, Local 289. It was the International Association of Machinists, is what it was. And you know, all the major shops were union shops at that time because Seattle was a very strong union town.

TI: And so if you look at this union, 289, were there any men of color in this?

TO: No, not at that time, yeah. So then I went to work right here on Fourteenth and Jackson, Sid Katayama and Kaz Nakano, I went to work for them. And they didn't have a, between the union and the shops, in those days, they had a formal, somewhat formal apprenticeship program. They called it formal, but what the heck, the apprentices, they got as much work out of the apprentices as they could. [Laughs] And paid you less money until you became a journeyman, is what it amounted to. But anyway, I worked for them about two years, then the Korean War broke out, so the army and the navy were crying for mechanics as civilians. So first I went to the army down here. I think it was Pier 30 or 31, but they were working on forklifts and stuff. But the way the army works is they have different levels of mechanics. And even though I had passed the, graduated from... at Edison, they started me at the lowest rate, and you're only allowed to repair it to a certain (level), you weren't allowed to take a carburetor apart or engine apart, and that wasn't for me. So as soon as I heard that the Navy wanted mechanics, I went over and worked at Pier 91. And I think I was there for, I think probably about a year or so. But meanwhile, I had taken an exam with the city as a mechanic, and they had called me and they said, "You know, we'd like to have you come and work for us, but you have to come work at night." So I said, "No, I'm not going to work a night shift." "Well, then you're not going to, we're going to take you off the list and you'll no longer be..." I said, "That's fine, I don't need to work nights." Well, then I got a call later on from the fire department, says, "We'd like to have you come interview." I said, "Well, I don't think I'm still on the list." "Well, as far as we're concerned, you're on the list." I said, okay. So anyway, that's how I got on the fire department. But there was a, I was working for the navy, I got an award for, I forgot what it was, some idea that they (...) accepted. And I think the, someone, personnel, a Ms. Jones, I think, her brother was the supervisor of the fire department shop. And so that was the connection. I found out later how I got that job.

TI: Oh, so probably through this Mrs. Jones, her brother, that you got this.

TO: Right. And then...

TI: And so I'm curious, at this point, joining the fire department, the city, how many, were there any other Japanese at the fire department at this time?

TO: I think there was, might have been a couple of girls that were working at the headquarters, one or two. And I think, for some reason, I think that was because of Chief Fitzgerald, he lived right down here by Franklin High School, so he might have gone to school or daughter had gone to school with Japanese or something. But anyway, there was a couple of girls, I think, that was working at the headquarters.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.