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TI: So let's talk about leaving for the mainland. So November of '42, describe the trip from Hawaii to the mainland. How did you get there and any memories from that?

JN: Yeah. I remember somehow -- I'm not sure where we got onto some kind of bus, I think. They must have sent bus over to our house or something. I remember us getting on the bus, and I don't remember -- no, I don't remember getting on the bus, but I remember being on the bus when we hit the immigration center that's still here. It's still located here in Honolulu. I remember getting off there, and then how we got from there to the boat, I don't recall. But my recollection was that we got onto the boat, the boat was the Lurline, which is in the Matson... what do you call it? Matson line, Lurline, which was a luxury passenger ship. And I recall I had a room with my mother. And so it was, it was a luxury kind of a trip from Honolulu to wherever we landed, Oakland somewhere.

TI: Do you recall if there were other families on the Lurline also going to the mainland? And if so, about how many?

JN: No, I don't remember anybody else. Well, I'm sure they were, I'm sure we weren't the only one. I assume they were all also going to be shipped to Jerome, same as we were being shipped. The one that... you know, on the way over... that's right, on the way over, I got the mumps. And we had a, there was a doctor on board who also went to Jerome. Miyamoto, I think, was his name, Dr. Miyamoto, I think. I think I just saw his name in the book I have, I saw his picture. And I remember him treating me. I still remember looking up to him because he was a doctor. Everybody looked up to him. He was the man on the trip. So I don't remember the others, but I remember Dr. Miyamoto. And then we got on the train after that.

TI: Well, so on this boat ride, so you were with your mother, and your two older brothers, Jitsu and Bert, where were they and what were they doing?

JN: [Laughs] I have no idea. Gee, I have no idea where they were.

TI: And so you don't recall seeing them very often on the trip.

JN: Not at all. All I remember is sticking close to my mother. I don't recall.

TI: And so you were... let's see, you were about how old? About seven or so? How old were you?

JN: Well, in '42, I'll be nine years...

TI: Nine years old.

JN: Pushing nine.

TI: And how old would Jitsu and Bert be about at that point?

JN: Well, see, he was close to graduating from high school, so he would have been sixteen, seventeen, Jitsu would be. And Bert would be, like, fifteen. Fourteen, fifteen.

TI: So they were older, they were probably just taking care of themselves.

JN: I guess. There must have been one common room they threw the rest of the guys in. But again, I stuck close to my mother, so I don't remember what happened to those guys.

TI: Okay. So you're, so you land in Oakland, and then you were talking about a train that you got on?

JN: Yeah, I remember getting on a train, and the train ride was, for me, it was a great trip. For one thing, the boat trip, I got seasick, of course, so I didn't like it. But getting on the train and riding the train, I don't know how many days it took us, but it was an enjoyable trip for me. I'm sticking close to my mother anyway. So that was a... I remember the train ride somehow, through the mountains and everything, was really a nice train ride. Although I remember soldiers. Oh, and the one thing -- I don't know why, whether I got this from a picture or my brother told me, but Bert is in the train, opens the window, and there's, the soldiers are outside and then he gives them the finger or yells at them. He does all kinds of things to the soldiers because they were the guys guarding us and everything. That sounds just like Bert.

TI: And then what happened after Bert did that?

JN: I think they tried to get him and he closed the window and took off inside. He was fast. So I don't think they ever caught up to him.

TI: Because you had the mumps, how did they treat you on the train? Were you with everyone else, so where were you when you had the mumps?

JN: Oh, you know, I think because I had the mumps, they had to kind of isolate me and my mother. And maybe that's why I don't remember where my brothers were, but I think we were on the special, special room. I mean, you know, the special, whatever you call that area where we practically had a room for, like a... nobody else were in that area.

TI: Oh, maybe like a sleeper car type of situation?

JN: Must have been, I don't recall. I really don't recall. But no, I don't recall the sleeper car, I recall sitting and watching also. But we had special... yeah, because of my mumps, that's right.

TI: Okay.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright ©2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.