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MA: And you also, you told me, did interviews, extensive interviews with hibakusha in the '80s, I think, is that right?

NM: That's right. In early 1980s, I had about forty interviews with hibakusha. Because I really want to learn about human dimension of the atomic bombing or nuclear bombing. Because facts and figures, they wouldn't really impact people as much as human stories. And I want to believe that once we know the stories of people, we cannot kill these people. So I wanted to tell the stories of atomic bomb survivors.

MA: How do you think in Japan, I guess, from the late '50s, '60s to now, the way that Japan sort of remembers what happened, the sort of public memory of Hiroshima, how has that changed from then until now?

NM: Yeah. The number of hibakusha, the survivors, is, of course, getting smaller and smaller. So memories are fading away. And even young people in Japan, some young people in Japan do not know what happened in August 6th and 9th of 1945. It is really sad, but many younger generations do not care. That's the impression I get every time I go back to Japan. "That's things of the past, and now we are affluent, and our lives are so comfortable. Why do we have to go back to the past, to bring up these ugly and painful memories?" But if we forget that piece of history, that history will repeat again. So every time I have any opportunity, I share the stories I heard from hibakusha. But you know, I have to say, in 1975, when I first came to this country, and of course I thought that America is a Christian country, peace-loving country. So my expectation was that people would listen to the stories of hibakusha. But I was wrong. I made people, mostly Caucasian people, very, very angry. And people in the audience, when I did the presentation, told me that, "If you don't like America, why are you studying at American seminary? Go back to Japan." Or, "Remember Pearl Harbor," or, "Russians may be coming," kind of responses. So that was really a rude awakening for me.

MA: Was this when you would talk specifically about Hiroshima and about the bombing?

NM: Hibakusha, yeah.

MA: Oh, hibakusha.

NM: Yeah, that's right. I brought the drawings of hibakusha. They drew pictures of what they remember going through this terrible, terrible experience. But another thing I need to say is I interviewed forty hibakusha as I said earlier, but none of them, none of them had any, hold any grudge or any animosity. They were just so sincere in making the very earnest plea to the world, "No more Hiroshimas and no more Nagasakis." That's why they used their own resources to come to this country or go to Asian countries or European countries to tell their stories. So I'm very grateful for their conscientious effort to keep this history alive. But not with anger or hostility, but with the plea for peace.

MA: Do you think that in Japan now, how much of it is sort of the education system? I'm just wondering in terms of the way that World War II and Hiroshima are remembered. How much is that education and how the curriculum is in Japan? I'm just wondering, trying to understand why people don't want to remember or why it's being written out of, I guess, the collective memory.

NM: Right, right. I have been away from my country for so many years, for over thirty years. But I have heard that current Japanese government is quite selective of what piece of history they want to teach, especially to younger generation. And in order to have friendly, amicable relationship with this country, they are very careful about how to address the issue, and then what to tell to the children and young people in Japan.

MA: And I wonder how much of that is a legacy of the American occupation in Japan, maybe.

NM: Uh-huh.

MA: Just thinking about the relationship that was sort of formed there in the late '40s and '50s, of the American occupation and how that impacted education and how that impacted so much of what modern Japan is today.

NM: Right, right. Yeah. It's 180 degree different, postwar education is. Because up until the end of the World War II, Japanese people were taught that emperor is God. And people are like emperor's children, so absolute obedience is enforced. No question was allowed. But under General MacArthur, American values came to our country, both good and bad. And the good thing is Japan began to learn the virtue of democracy and equality and more freedom. But unfortunately, pendulum swung to the other end. Democracy, freedom, freedom became really like a license without any restraint or responsibility. "Oh, you can do anything." So people, you know, began to wonder how they were able to adjust to this new trend. And some people committed suicide, or some people decided to live in invisible prison or self-made cell like my father. And they, many of them became very resentful, those people that were not able to make adjustment. And these are the people who are, to this day, still trying to bring this nationalism back to our country in the name of loyalty, honor, and sacrifice.

MA: So you see that coming back...

NM: Oh, yes.

MA: ...in recent times?

NM: Yeah. I guess a reaction to materialism and consumerism and no spiritual spine. Such a spiritual vacuum is in Japan. It's really pathetic. You know, I see such emptiness in the eyes of young people in Japan. Their eyes are like eyes of a dead fish. Almost like a futurelessness. Yes, they are fluent, they can do anything they wish to do. But such emptiness in their soul.

Father was a strong figure until the end of the war, you know, like the emperor was God. But now, Father doesn't have much of any authority, and even teachers are not respected. So there was no clear core values. So without vision, people perish. That's the way I see my country is becoming.

MA: And it seems like in a vacuum as well, that's where you see a resurgence in a type of nationalism.

NM: That's right, yeah, right-wing people tend to take advantage of that.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright ©2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.