<Begin Segment 34>

TI: Okay, so for this last part, I wanted to reflect a little bit more about your husband's connection with the other artists in Seattle. So can you tell me about some of the other artists? So this is after the war, he's back in Seattle. Who were some of the other people that he...

BH: Just, seemed to be just Nomura and Tokita and Tobey is about all.

TI: Right. What about George Tsutakawa?

BH: Oh, yeah, and George.

TI: George, and then there was a Namkung?

BH: Namkung, yeah.

TI: Nam...

BH: Namkung. Just because he was a friend of George, I guess, that we got to know them.

TI: And they were, they all were kind of different artists, too. Like George was a sculptor, and then Namkung was a photographer.

BH: Tokita, Nomura and Paul was about the, they did about the same kind of work. Sometimes you can't tell which was which, because they were similar.

TI: And so would Paul be able to recognized good art right away when he would see, like, photography or a sculpture?

BH: Yeah.

TI: He would see that also?

BH: He was very good at recognizing all those people. "Oh, so and so must be this."

TI: And so as your husband became more well-known, did a lot of younger artists come to visit him, too?

BH: Oh, yeah. Frank Okada used to come around. I don't know, not too many. There were a lot of Caucasian young men who would come around sometimes.

TI: Earlier you mentioned also there seemed to be a special relationship with Mark Tobey.

BH: Oh, Tobey used to love Paul and antiques. So they used to go to, Mr. Takizaki had a little antique shop by the Beacon Hill, on that, right off the bridge. And they used to go visit all the time, and he used to love Japanese ceramics, Tobey. And so we got to be real good friends. So that's how we got to know Tobey.

TI: And so describe how maybe you and Paul... what's the right word? Introduced Mark Tobey to more Japanese, like, foods or...

BH: Oh, he liked it before we even met him. That's why he'd go to Maneki, I guess, all the time.

TI: And so he would go there with Paul?

BH: This was before, and they used to go, and then they'd go together.

TI: And I'm curious, did the Japanese community recognize or understand who Mark Tobey was?

BH: I don't know if they did or not. Except this restaurant, because he would go in there and get, every time he'd go in there, the lady at the Maneki wouldn't charge him for his food. And so then he'd drag Paul in there together, and they'd both eat there. And they kept doing that, so he said, "We can't do that all the time," so they each gave Maneki a painting, a small painting. And they said it was hanging there, and I don't know if it's still there or not. But used to hang it in there.

TI: Yeah, I hope they took good care of them. [Laughs] I'm worried about all the oil and stuff would kind of ruin those paintings over time.

BH: Yeah, I think they probably put glass on it. [Laughs]

TI: Oh, interesting, that's a good story. So they would get free meals all the time?

BH: Every time, they said that's why they gave 'em a painting, because they got free meals every time.

TI: That's a good story. And I think I read someplace where sometimes your husband and Mark Tobey would go down to Tacoma?

BH: That's the Main Street in Tacoma.

TI: And why would they go down there?

BH: Because there was an abandoned building on that whole street there at that time. The painting was, paint was all faded and torn, looks awfully dirty. And so he said he loved the color of those places, Tobey did. So he, 'cause Tobey didn't drive, so Paul had to take him. And they'd stand there and they'd look at all the walls. And it was really, I guess to us it would look dirty and abandoned. [Laughs]

TI: Oh, that's interesting. But the two artists would go there and they would see the colors and the textures and learn from that?

BH: Yeah, and Paul learned a lot from Tobey, too. They'd be walking and they'd see a puddle of water on the street, and they'd look at it, and Tobey would be just staring at it. And he says, "See, Paul, look at the color. Isn't that beautiful?" [Laughs] So they'd stand there looking at this puddle. Things like that.

<End Segment 34> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.