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TI: And do you know... okay, so from Hawaii, you said you were born in Vallejo, which is California. And then after that, you remember, your first memories were Washington, D.C.

MH: Yes.

TI: So let's go from there. After Washington, D.C., where did you go?

MH: We went by ship through the Panama Canal, and on to Hawaii, to Honolulu, where my dad commanded a submarine squadron.

TI: And so for you, I mean, when I think about your travels and going from Hawaii, or from California to Washington, D.C., going through the Panama Canal, it sounds very glamorous. I mean, when you're growing up, traveling like this... did it feel glamorous? Was it exciting?

MH: No, no. It was just the way of life. I think you're too young to absorb the idea of things being glamorous, yes. Perhaps if you look back you might think so, but it was just the way of life at that time.

TI: So describe, like, as you traveled together as a family, because, tell me about your siblings at this point in terms of...

MH: Age?

TI: ...who the family sort of traveled around with.

MH: Well, when we went to Honolulu... let's see. I was, I was five, so that means that Alex was eighteen. My brother, my brother Alex, my mother's son by her first marriage, started in the Naval Academy, I think, at that point, so he was not traveling with us. My sister Elizabeth, who was... let's see, she was sixteen, was traveling with us. And my sister Charlotte, who was, let's see, she was one year old, I guess, she was traveling with us on the ship. I don't remember if, I don't remember at all whether Dad was on the -- he must have been on the ship, yes, he was on that. It was a commercial, not a naval vessel, not a transport. And when we stopped in California, in Long Beach, I think it was, or Los Angeles, I don't know, and I met my father's mother and father and my aunt there, for the first time, I believe, but I may have met them earlier. And then we sailed on to Honolulu.

TI: And I'm thinking as you're growing up, at a young age, you're meeting all these different people, these families.

MH: These relatives, yes.

TI: Did it all sort of make sense to you, all these different people? Or was it confusing?

MH: No, no, yes. [Laughs]

TI: All these different places. Because I think in terms of most normal childhoods, you're oftentimes in one place, and the people around you are there for a while. I'm just, as I'm listening to you, I'm getting a sense of the transitions over and over again.

MH: Yes. You're used to things being broken up, and you're going on and you don't see those places or people again, and so they're just there behind you, they're no longer with you. And you have to, then you have to build up a new group or society, a new house to live in, a new community to be in, and...

TI: But this probably just seemed normal to you, though. I mean, at this point, this was, this was your life.

MH: Well, it was. It was my life. That was my life.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2008 Densho. All Rights Reserved.