<Begin Segment 26>

MA: And something I wanted to talk with you about was your family's move to Moraga and the sort of way that the Japanese American community talked about that or treated you because of that move?

IN: Yes, even by my best friends, I was sort of criticized. You know, "You're just runnin' away from the problems that we have." And I was greatly criticized and never recognized after that. I never got, was really deeply involved with the Japanese community anyway. I think my ideas were a little more flamboyant, aggressive than the normal Nisei population, a little different. I never really socialized with the Japanese population. I didn't feel comfortable with them. I think I was too aggressive. [Laughs]

MA: And did you feel that they were maybe a little more conservative or traditional also?

IN: Yes, they all felt that. My family felt it. In fact, my older brother's comment was, "Oh, you're gonna' to move back to the other side." I never did. I felt perfectly at home.

MA: And you told me one story about the swimming pool?

IN: The what?

MA: The swimming pool.

IN: Oh, yeah. So we had a pretty large backyard, and we didn't know what to do with it. We didn't want to plant it so it required a lot of work. Well this, our neighbor had a pool. They built a pool and the lady there was, I think she was a little on the biased side. But in the community at that time, she was the only one with a pool. So she would have these little flags, red flags, yellow flags, and that represented different signals to the kids in the community. You know, kids all want the pool, especially during the summer. And so she would raise the green flag if certain people were allowed. Red flags, you weren't allowed or whatever. And it got to the point where I felt -- I didn't want the pool, I don't swim -- but I felt that it was not good for the children to be eliminated constantly like that. So I says, "Hey, we've got a big backyard. Why not put in a pool?" So we did. But of course, the Japanese community really criticized that. I mean, it was, I know they felt that I was going over the top and sort of that, "you stay in your place" syndrome, I call it. But it was wonderful. Because now, the children didn't have to look at the flags or feel that they were being eliminated deliberately. And I didn't want that to happen.

MA: Why do you think that the Japanese American community felt that away about you? Was it because you were going against the grain and sort of doing things that other people in the community weren't?

IN: Yeah, I had a little different view of how to get what I wanted. And that was not to always feel to keep your place. Why did I have to feel I have to keep my place? I'm an American citizen. So I think, my philosophy was -- and I've told this to the children -- if you want to do something, consider two or three things. Number one, if it hurts you mentally or physically, then don't do it. If it hurts the family deeply, you know, psychologically, don't do it. But after considering those things, if you want something or do something, go ahead and do it. Don't let anybody stop you. And that has been more or less my creed. And I think I was highly, highly criticized for that. And I felt that the that you mingle in the white community, the Caucasian community, was not to feel that you had your place, but to prove to them, reverse it, that you were just as capable and just as good. And the only way that you can do that is to get in to the white communities, not by isolating yourself. And I've done that.

MA: And you've broke a lot of barriers in your time.

IN: I've told my children, "Do anything." Once when I was young, about forty, fifty, my hair was pitch black. And I wanted to streak it, because that was sort of the in thing. And you know, Niseis didn't do things like that. I just said, it doesn't hurt me, physically or mentally, it doesn't hurt my family, although my brother objected to it. I had my hair streaked. And people were, my brother just was aghast. [Laughs]

MA: So why do you think that you have this drive, you know? What do you think, I mean, you mentioned earlier you felt the internment had a big impact on you in terms of proving that you were equal.

IN: And I had my own way. I don't believe in clubs, and I never joined the Buddhist church club or the JACL. I did it my way, alone. And I've taught my children that. Each time you represent when you go out, you not only represent yourself, you represent your race. And they've done that, all of them.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright © 2008 Densho. All Rights Reserved.