<Begin Segment 18>

[Ed. note: This transcript has been edited by the narrator]

TI: So you went to Tule before it was opened.

FT: We opened it really. So we were the first ones there.

TI: And why don't you describe what was there. What did it look like?

FT: Well, there was a lot of barracks under construction (...). They were clearing some of the roadway, what they call firebreaks or whatever it was. And we worked closely with the admin people. So I got the job of writing whatever (was) going on and sending it (...) to "Camp Harmony." And (...) in talking to the admin people, that's what they told us, was this is going to be one experiment in social living. And we'll see how it all (turns out). So to us, to me, especially, it wasn't so much incarceration (and) we were (helping) these people. I think (they) were recruited out of universities (...). They were academic types, not military (...). And we got on real famously and they told us that (they were) conducting an experiment in social living.

TI: So when you say "experiment in social living," when they said that, what did that mean to you? What kind of...

FT: It was like the living we did in the clubhouse. Help each other out, (do) the jobs that we had to do, like housecleaning, or KP, or whatever.

TI: So when you say experiment, it's almost, so everyone would chip in and work and do things, almost like a commune type or socialist --

FT: Commune, yeah, social living. So, yeah. And...

TI: And when you heard this, what did you think? Did that make sense to you?

FT: Well, it made sense in that (...) we're going to be evacuated from the West Coast military zone, but well, so what? So now, we're going to be part of an experiment in social living, I guess. (It was an attempt to rationalize the evacuation to make it palatable for us.)

TI: So was part of this experiment to try and break down kind of the, like back in the community, some people would have more money than others, they'd have better houses, better jobs. Was the, again, was this experiment in social living trying to change all the dynamics?

FT: I guess that's what they were thinking. I don't know what, exactly what they were thinking about -- how they were going to conduct this whole thing. They were in charge of the camp.

TI: And so when they told you that, why do you think they told you that? What kind, what were they looking from you?

FT: I don't know. As friend to friend, one individual to another, not as a captive and guards or anything like that, we're working together.

TI: And so, when you think about some of the things that happened at Tule Lake, were there some innovative things that they implemented that was kind of this, part of this social experiment?

FT: After the camp opened up, (we get) people from Sacramento and San Francisco, and nobody from (Seattle). Well, there's one guy (...) from Auburn, California, right outside of Sacramento. And he went to work (in the) farm area. And he told me (Tule) had the largest farm in all of California (...) -- more hens laying eggs, and (larger) vegetable fields. He was real proud of it. (...) Every morning, (he would look over the farm and say), "Here's my farm. It's the biggest (...) in California." He wasn't thinking about being interned or incarcerated.

TI: But when he got into camp, so who took care of his farm? What happened to his farm?

FT: (I don't know, but) they had, like I was working in the newspaper, these guys were working on the farm.

TI: Oh, I see what you're saying. So when he says the biggest farm in California, he was talking about Tule Lake.

FT: Yeah, Tule Lake farm.

TI: The Tule Lake farm was the biggest farm in California. I see.

FT: Yeah, that was outside the camp grounds. It was, yeah, he was so proud of it.

TI: I see, okay. I misunderstood earlier.

FT: He wasn't thinking about being interned, an internee or anything like that. He was a farmer. Here was, his living was a farmer in Auburn, and here he is now, he's part of this whole big project.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2008 Densho. All Rights Reserved.