<Begin Segment 10>

[Ed. note: This transcript has been edited by the narrator]

SA: And of course, underneath Chinatown, there is another, a lot of gambling went on in the early days. Sometimes I'd go watch. [Laughs]

TI: Oh, I want to ask about that. So gambling, where would that be?

SA: Underground. Well, it's like Tai Tung underneath has a basement, I don't know if you've ever been there. But in between Rex Hotel and our place, there was a store, and I was kind of curious. But I would see a lot of these red little papers just flung around, littered around Chinatown, and those were, I guess that was a lottery kind of a ticket. But a lot of the Chinese did not have their wives here, (they gambled a lot). And I know in researching of late, some of the Chinese people would (ask), one researcher asked me, I think she's (a) professor (at Seattle University), she may be now, of Asian Studies. And Marie Wong asked me, "What do you know about Chinatown?" Well, the Chinese and the Japanese did not mix prior to the war, they kept to themselves. But I used to wonder, as I walked up and down Chinatown, where the women were. And there were very few, if you researched, that had families. We were lucky to know a few because we all went to Bailey Gatzert. That was almost, I'd say about ninety percent out of Chinatown and out of the Japantown. So I met a few there, and we're still friends to this day.

TI: And you're, again, you're talking about the Chinese, there were no Chinese women, Chinese American women.

SA: Yeah. Well, they weren't there because the Chinese men were married, but the wives were still in China.

TI: Right, and that was in contrast to the Japanese community.

SA: The Japanese brought the women in.

TI: There were lots of women.

SA: That was from 1908, they did have (an) agreement, Gentlemen's Agreement, (which limited immigration numbers, but the women got around that as brides, I guess).

TI: And so I think what you're trying to get at is, so what were the differences of the communities? So you had one where there were more of a bachelor community versus, with the Chinese, versus...

SA: Not only the Chinese, the Filipinos (were young bachelors, too).

TI: And the Filipinos, so you had these bachelor communities sort of close by or adjacent to the Japanese community, which was probably more family oriented. So what did you notice about that?

SA: Well, for one, I walked by and I just see the Chinese men. And it didn't seem to me they had a job. I often wondered what they did for a living and now it comes out a lot of it was in gambling halls. But, and I suppose the Japanese had their own in the early days.

TI: So when you saw that gambling in the basement of, underground, was that Japanese or Chinese?

SA: Well, I happened to have gone in that one time (and) it was Chinese. But what tickled me was, you know, they had a lookout right out between our store and the Rex Hotel. And when the police would come on a tip, they were, of course, the lookout would see enough, and I wondered how they got away. But then the thing is, by the time (the police) got down the stairs to the basement, the tables were tipped, so there was nothing there. And I thought, "Wasn't that clever?"

TI: So they were all, they were all set up so that --

SA: They're tipped. They tip right in. I don't know how they did that.

TI: And then what would happen to the people --

SA: They must have a, I suppose there must have been some kind of a pivoting machine, so it looks like they're drinking tea. Nothing was on the top. And all I could think was, "How clever."

TI: Well, you were able to take a peek when they were actually gambling.

SA: So that's because they just thought I was a child, and I was. And you know, you don't usually go down, but I went in 'cause the door was open, and I was kind of curious. (...)

TI: Yeah, so can you describe what you saw? I mean, what did it look like?

SA: Well, they were just (sitting around these tables and) they had a lot of this red paper and (...) watched the whole thing (going on), but they were punching (...) holes, and I didn't quite understand what (they were doing, and) there was money on the table. I wish I (had) comprehended what was going on.

TI: Well, and how many, how many men were down there and...

SA: Quite a few. There was a lot.

TI: Like ten, twenty?

SA: Oh, I think so. But they had (quite a number of) tables going. It's an interesting thing. But (those who) had families (who weren't there), you could tell. They (went as families to) gather seaweed, nori, and I don't know where they got theirs, I gather it might have been Lincoln Park, (Alki), 'cause hardly (anyone) had cars. (They must have used trolley cars). But they would string it up, you know, and what they (used to do) in Chinatown (is not done now). (And) they used to have these metal doors right on the sidewalk, I don't know if you've ever seen them, and they open up. Well, they used to put a mat on top of those, and then they'd put the wet seaweed (over it), and they would dry them there. And I'd see a lot of that. (Or) they'd hang 'em on, if they had any fence or anything, (and let them dry).

TI: And this was different seaweed than the Japanese would collect?

SA: I don't know because they were kind of dry (and were all dark). I know the Japanese liked that orangey-red, there was a certain type. And they got theirs, (too, at Lincoln and Alki beaches, but) I think the Japanese would go to Vashon and Bainbridge 'cause it's cleaner (water). But we didn't go hanging them (...) outside. You could almost, if I got, some time we'd, (as children), just (...) stamp on their seaweed when we walked by. We were so (bad). (We thought) it was just (...) fun. But it was kind of a great era, really. We didn't have toys as such, so we played jintori and "kick the can," and things of that nature. Anywhere where there was a lot (where we played), and that's where I met a couple of (African American children) -- there weren't very many blacks in that time. At the Coast Hotel there was a couple (that) had children, Martha and Mary Washington, and I played with them. But they were (the) only (African Americans) close to us in (the) Chinatown area.

TI: So let's talk about just sort of the, kind of the... your childhood and the mixing of all these races. 'Cause I'm thinking, I mean, there were some Chinese, you had a couple of blacks and then Japanese. How did the kids get along with the different races?

SA: Well, at school, we merged more, but you know, when we went back (home), we didn't play as much except (for) the Chin (family) right about, five (...) stores up from us. (When) their mother (...) died and their sister was raising them, (we played with them). (...) One of their siblings was blind, and I saw (her) quite a bit. So on top of that, you know, (...) there was an alley (nearby), we were raising our bean sprouts (down near the alley), Mother and I. And you know, it was actually (...) across from the Wah Mei (Club), I don't know if you know where that is. Anyway, but the (Rex) Hotel upstairs had a furnace room, and of course it's warm. So we had these big porcelain pots, and then Mother and I would (...) put the beans in, and then, of course, we'd change the water every day, and then we'd sell the bean sprouts in our store. (That furnace room opened in the alley).

TI: So that was you and your mother would do this? And because of the heat from the furnace area, things grew faster.

SA: Yes. It was wonderful. Now I look at bean sprouts and I think, "I know how to raise those."

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2008 Densho. All Rights Reserved.