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TI: Well, so when you think about it, when you look at the Isseis in the gardening association and how they worked together as a group, how would you see the differences, or how would you describe the differences between how they did -- you mentioned the drinking and, versus the Niseis and Isseis. Were there other differences that you can remember?

MT: Well, I think the Gardeners were, of the different groups, I think they were considered fairly successful because they were, had their own business. Depending on how hard they wanted to work, they were able to support the families, I wouldn't say comfortably, but fairly comfortable for at that time of their life, you know. So I think on the whole, most of the gardeners, Issei gardeners were considered fairly successful among the Isseis.

TI: And so they were a fairly prominent group within the community, as a group?

MT: I believe so, yeah.

TI: Because they probably had, in terms of assets, they had probably trucks and equipment, and a solid income. And so as a Nisei, as you started growing up, did you work for your father?

MT: Most of us did. And you take Yamasakis, Yorozus, Mizukis, all of them that were there, all of us, we knew each other, we didn't know each other well or anything, but we knew who the fellows' sons were because they were all out there, we'd see 'em time to time.

TI: And so being the son of one of the Gardeners, I mean, what, what was that like? What kind of work did you have to do as you were growing up? Like you're, say you're fifteen, sixteen years old?

MT: Well, by the time we were fifteen, sixteen, we were doing the bulk of the heavy work. When we were younger, we were just more or less going out being babysit, -sat by our fathers. But as we grew older, we were mowing the lawns and doing all the heavy work. And then some of the fellows branched off to go into landscaping, like the Kubotas, Yorozus, Yamasaki, and all, all the Isseis did a little bit of landscaping, so when you look at the Seattle landscaping, gardening on the whole, you see a little bit of Japanese... what would you say, culture or flair in all the Japanese American gardens here. You don't have the formal English or French style garden, there are very few here in the Seattle area. So I would say in this sense, it was very unknown to them, they played a very prominent part of the landscaping of the Seattle gardens. When I say "Seattle gardens," overall Seattle homes and gardens.

TI: And so as you drive around neighborhoods, I mean, could you just tell right away which, which homes had Japanese gardeners, in terms of that look that you saw?

MT: Not necessarily. When you, I think the thing is, there were a lot of cherry trees, pine trees, the flower beds were not cut square like a typical English or French. If there's a, somebody had a pool, it was not a square pool like a French typical square pool. There were contoured rocks around there. So the Japanese garden influence is very subtle in the Seattle area, but it's there. And like when you go down to Seward Park or almost any of these parks, there are so many cherry trees, and the Japanese government donated a lot of cherry trees to the Seattle area, and so the Japanese garden influence is very strong in the Seattle area, and we're not really aware of it, but it's there.

TI: You mentioned earlier that your father was pretty active in the Gardeners Association. Did he ever talk about why he felt that was important, to have an association and work together?

MT: I think it was just to protect themselves from... not protect themselves so much, but more of an educational, social thing. And being in the same business, it was almost a natural to get together.

TI: Were there ever times when -- you mentioned "protect," I'm not sure -- did they ever, as a group, have to perhaps lobby the city or something in terms of regulations that they wanted changed? Do you ever remember anything like that?

MT: I don't think the city and states and things were very particular about it. A person can go out, start gardening, if he had a few dollars, he'd be able to buy an old car, and he could start. Where if he went into almost any other business, I think even in those days you had to get a license and things. Nothing was required. And when it was just a matter of if you were willing to go out there and work, you could start as a gardener. So it was easy way for a person to start his own business.

TI: Or how about as a group, did they ever kind of band together in terms of purchasing power? That they would try to work together to perhaps buy fertilizer or equipment...

MT: I think they did have association in that sense, but never very strong. Somehow, if they started doing something like that, somebody would have to do the bookkeeping and things, and I think they were too busy trying to make a life of their own without trying to work for the group as a whole. But there was a certain amount of it, yes.

TI: Okay, good. So now I have a pretty good sense of the, the prewar gardening association.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2008 Densho. All Rights Reserved.