<Begin Segment 31>

TI: So eventually the family all gets back to Seattle. I want to talk a little bit about, you know, sort of picking up -- and we mentioned this earlier in terms of starting back up with the gardening business and how that was. Earlier we talked about how many of the prewar clients, their homes or their yards weren't in very good shape. I mean, they weren't being taken care of very well, so that many of the Japanese gardeners were able to pick up their, their business right away. So was that pretty much the case for your, your father?

MT: Yeah.

TI: And is that what you also did, too? Did you start helping your father in this area?

MT: Yeah, my dad came home and he picked up the gardening business right away. And I decided I'd go into it because couldn't quite see myself trying to run around looking for a job somewhere, where this was available to me right away. So it worked out very nicely for me.

TI: What were the differences before the war and after the war? Did you see differences in terms of how the business changed?

MT: No, I can't say that it did. We were pretty much in demand, especially the fellows that were knowledgeable. There were some fellows that started gardening business, they didn't know anything, and they didn't last very long because it take a little finesse, a little knowledge to be a gardener.

TI: And, because I'm thinking, or I've talked to people and they said coming back to Seattle, for some people, it was hard to find work initially.

MT: I think it was, yeah.

TI: And so did some of them try and -- these are some of the people that tried gardening for the first time?

MT: Yeah, uh-huh.

TI: Were there attempts by some of the more experienced gardeners to try to help these newcomers?

MT: This is what we did. There were several gardeners that started about the time I did or a little after, and this is when our Gardeners Association was reestablished again. And we would talk about, we'd have classes as to what to do. We tried to help the new fellows that were novices in the gardening business. So it was an organization where mutually helping each other. We didn't try to cut each other's, take away the jobs or anything, because there's plenty of work -- excuse me -- for all of us. So this is where the Gardeners Association, the prewar Issei group, and then the Nisei group pretty much took over, after the war. And it continued right on up until a few years ago.

TI: And during this postwar era, was there kind of new groups or new competition for the Japanese gardeners? I'm thinking that during the war, there perhaps were groups that emerged to sort of replace the Japanese gardeners. And so did the business dynamics change in terms of having to compete more with other groups?

MT: No, I think there were still enough people in the city that wanted gardeners. And so a lot of the gardeners started up, lot of what we call the Shin-Issei, they started up without really knowing too much about gardening, but they started and they were able to make themselves a fairly comfortable living. And I think that was one of the nice things with the Gardeners Association, that I've always said, we were probably one of the few Japanese groups where the Isseis, Niseis, and the Kibeis got along. Because traditionally the Kibeis -- not Kibeis, but the Shin-Issei or the young immigrants that came from Japan, language-wise and things, socially they and the Niseis had very little social... what would you say, in common. But as the gardeners we had something in common, and I think we were one of the few groups that the Niseis and the Shin-Isseis got along with each other.

TI: And so you had this common work, and so you're saying, like, after work or sometimes at these monthly meetings, then you would be more socializing?

MT: Yeah, there was a certain amount of friendship grew up between the Shin-Isseis and the Niseis.

TI: And so why do you think that was different? Why didn't other group, why that didn't happen...

MT: I think it was still language that kept different groups apart. I think the Shin-Issei groups started their own different organizations. I think churches were a good example, they had the English-speaking denomination and then they have the Japanese-speaking. And so there was, the language kept them, or kept us pretty much apart.

TI: And so what kind of activities would the groups share on a social basis?

MT: Well, we would have picnics and Shinenkais and different work parties and things like that. We took part in helping build some of the Arboretum tea garden, helping Keiro. What are some of the others? The cherry blossom festival. But our gardeners group was asked to help in a lot of those things that we got together. And so the two language-speaking groups, we got together, we got to know each other, and we got along quite well.

TI: Now, when you did these community things like the tea garden, cherry blossom, Keiro, was this pro bono? Did you guys volunteer this to the community?

MT: Yeah, probably we were asked, but it was strictly volunteer things. We always had a good turnout.

TI: How about your father's generation? Were they still involved after the war in the business?

MT: After the war, they pretty much started to fade out. And the ones that were left, they had the feelings of "let the young generation take over." And so they were getting close to retirement age or retiring, and so I think this is the attitude they took, "We're retiring, so we'll let the younger guys do it."

TI: And do you think the younger guys, did you do the business different? Did you kind of approach it, I think you mentioned earlier that perhaps more of the Niseis went into landscape?

MT: We were becoming much more mechanized than the first generation. First generation was, I would say ninety-nine percent hand equipment. And as the Nisei group started, everything was whatever mechanical things that came out, we were picking it up and doing it, using that.

TI: And would you take on, then, bigger jobs, bigger clients?

MT: Yeah, I think we were able to handle bigger jobs, do the jobs faster. I think our pay scale, we were still on the lower totem pole as far as pay goes, but I think it was, what we were charging was competitive with fellows working for industry or for postal service or in stores and things. So the Niseis, salary-wise, we were equal if not above some of the fellows that were working in the industry after the war.

TI: And so I'm curious in terms of, so a lot of the Niseis that were gardeners, their fathers started in the business also. Did very many of the children of the Niseis continue with the business, in gardening?

MT: I think there were maybe ten or so. And, you know, the fellows, well, the Shin-Isseis, too, I think we were all fairly successful, we all bought our own homes, spread out to different parts of the city and raised our family. And I think we had a, not high living, but we all managed to have a comfortable living.

<End Segment 31> - Copyright © 2008 Densho. All Rights Reserved.