<Begin Segment 12>

TI: So let's go back to Franklin High School, and earlier you mentioned that some of your Caucasian friends didn't really accept you after the war.

LH: That's right.

TI: That, was this that period when you found, or experienced those things, when you went back to Franklin?

LH: Oh, yes. In fact, the first school dance we had, I went to, and some of the girls in my senior class were also those I'd known in grade school and junior high. And even though the ones I had just met at Franklin wouldn't dance with me, even the ones I knew before the war wouldn't dance with me, which really shocked me. And they wouldn't dance with me because I was an American of Japanese ancestry. And I remember a guy named Dave Burrows, I think he was from Franklin -- from Garfield. And he came to the dance, and of course, everybody raising a big fuss over Dave Burrows because he was a football star. And I went up to talk to him, and he ignored me. And yet he was, you know, one of my closest friends. And yet we had, I think two Nisei Franklin High School graduates who were killed during the war. But none of this seeps into the minds of high schoolers, you know. They just accepted the propaganda our government put out, that, you know, "once a 'Jap,' always a 'Jap,'" like DeWitt would say.

TI: So how did you feel? So you went from a place where you had lots of Japanese friends, you were accepted, you wanted to go back to Franklin.

LH: Well, not only accepted, I was one of the leaders of Hunt High School, if I may put it in those terms, and the most, one of the most popular.

TI: Right, so you go from that situation to now Franklin, where I imagine, still, you were an excellent student.

LH: Well, that's where I became an excellent student, because in camp, I wasn't initially, I was not a yogore, but I wasn't particularly studious. I got to be a bit more studious later on through the influence of people like Helen Amerman and Bob Coombs. And so all the more reason, I think that's why we had so many Nikkei get involved in academic life or in sports, because socially, so to speak, they weren't part of the community. And that's where I excelled at Franklin, in the debate club and winning their oratorical contests, and a number of areas where I felt that if I exceeded in that, I would be more fully accepted.

TI: Now, were there others, though, that supported you and actually encouraged you during this time?

LH: Oh, yes. I remember, I guess it was my English teacher, who was also my debate coach named Samuelson. And Mr. Samuelson was a true believer in, you know, equality, and we're all the same, we're all Americans. He's the one that helped me in some of my speeches where I got up to the finalists in Seattle in an oratorical contest, got to the state finals in Olympia, I recall, and then losing out. But there was also another teacher named Davenport who was very helpful. Another thing that really hurt me deeply was I was a member of the Hi-Y club. It's a Christian club in camp, and they wouldn't allow me to join it at Franklin. A Christian club. [Laughs] Really, most ironic.

TI: So, do you think the, sort of, anti-Japanese feeling was just, was the strongest right after the war? Those, that one or two years right after?

LH: Oh, yes, I mean, obviously during the war and right after the war. And you know, it took a long time, and that's why I'm fully sympathetic with the "no-no boys" and how they signed up as "no-no boys." But if it wasn't for the glory of the 100th and the 442, and then later what the MIS did, it would have been so much more difficult for the Nikkei to fully establish themselves into the, into the community mainstream of America. And I, I think that's an additional reason I myself joined the army immediately...

TI: Okay, before we get there, there's, I just... sort of this hostility towards Japanese Americans after the war. Do you think there was confusion? I mean, these were, these were kids that you grew up with. They knew that you were born and raised in Seattle, and so I'm a little confused why they couldn't distinguish who you were as an American citizen.

LH: Well, I think that it's the same old business as you, you join the majority. Those that knew me before the war are still gonna side with the majority of the Caucasians that didn't know the Nikkei before the war, that believed that everybody who was of Japanese ancestry was a "Jap." And so they weren't man enough or woman enough or strong enough to break from the majority to continue their friendship with a so-called "Jap."

TI: So during this period, did you have anyone that you could confide in and just talk about these, these issues with?

LH: Well, with this FBI family, this Dr. Guthrie family, and a few others that I knew, but mostly adults, not younger people. I think that's where the seed began, where I said to myself, "Well, I should join the army like the majority of the Nikkei did, and go to college out east, where I would be, you know, accepted as a member of the majority." Because an anthropologist in camp had said to me, "Economic prejudice, or prejudice, racial prejudice, will never be eradicated in a competitive economic system," and that's true. Because when your livelihood is at stake, and that of your wife and your children, and you lose your job, or you may lose your job, ninety, ninety-nine percent of the people of the world will turn against anybody. All those with green hair, or all those with epicanthic fold, or without the epicanthic fold. So to me, it's understandable, although not acceptable, that that's what occurred during the war, after the war, and occurred after 9/11.

TI: So America being a capitalist society, you're saying that in some ways, the system, I guess "encourages" is not the right word, but fosters sort of this, sort of racial divide.

LH: I wouldn't go as far as "foster," but it's inevitable in human society, it's the human condition. It's the best in the world. There's nothing better than a representative republic, which we have. And as I've traveled around the world, and I've seen, not just from textbooks, but by intimately involved in affairs around the world, you know there's nothing better than here. You make the best of it, but you've got to know what it's all about, otherwise, you tear yourself apart. You're full of agony and distrust and hate yourself, because you expect perfection. But we know there's no perfection.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2007 Densho. All Rights Reserved.