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TI: So when I hear this, so a lot of the people who come to our website are high school kids, both men and women. And what would you tell a high school student who is graduating, and is thinking of volunteering for the military? What advice would you give them at this point? If they were doing it, like, right now in this, sort of, this time period, where the Iraq war is going on. What would you tell them? Because on the one hand, I know you have this strong sense of duty and wanting to be part of something, yet you're in this tough situation and you have all these young people who are faced with this decision right now. What would you, what advice would you give them?

EW: Certainly I do believe in the nobility of the military, and that it can do good things. But certainly it's a tool, it's a weapon of the United States government, and it's often used for, for reasons that are not honorable or noble, or righteous. John Murtha was in an interview a few months ago, and he's a combat veteran, and he volunteered for the Korean War and the Vietnam War, and reached the rank of colonel, and has been strongly influential within the military circles throughout his political career as a congressman. He was asked, "Going through what you have, what you had, going through all that, would you join the military today?" And he said, "No, I would not." And I want to convey that to those high schoolers, and I also would say that I agree. That, in essence, you are going to be putting yourself in a position of being part of an administration, to be used by an administration that is corrupt, that has broken the law numerous times. You're going to be used by them, and you will not have a choice. You can do what I did, sure. You can refuse and you can speak out and say how wrong it is, but like me, the odds are going to be horribly against you. You are going to be fighting for your life and for your future. And I think it is noble to stand up, and honorable, but you have to ask yourself, "Do you want to be put in that position, in that situation?"

That's the same thing this officer candidate wrote to me, and said she was being told by her instructors that she had to write about me and my views on the war, and so she did after speaking to me. And they told her that she didn't get the point, because they wanted her basically to slam me. But I, I told her many things and trying to give her a brief history on Iraq war and pre-Iraq war, and how the American government had supplied Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons long before 1991, and intelligence, and things like that. We had basically built up Saddam Hussein, and then when he became inconvenient, then we wanted to get rid of him. But I was telling this officer candidate, I said, "You know, you have to look about, look about all the things that you are going to be, and that you will be forced to do." And I said, "You have to be willing to do the right thing all the times. You have to be willing to give up your own freedom, your own life, your family, your family's welfare, to do the right thing. That's what being a soldier and an officer is all about. If you're not willing to do that, then you need to think twice about joining the military." Because I'd tell the same to, same thing to these high schoolers.

TI: But then, so, you're, I'm trying to think this through. So you're, in some ways, do you think there needs to be changes in the military before you would, you would tell any high schooler? Because this thing I see is, "Well, once you join, you have to sort of give up your life and do whatever's told to you." But you're also saying that currently, what you're being told to do is illegal and immoral. So in that case, I'm, I think what I'm hearing is that you would not at this point advise any high schooler to go in? Is that, would that be fair to say? I'm trying to paraphrase.

EW: Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I would not advise it. But if you do, if you strongly believe in joining the military, which is -- I can understand that. But you have to be willing to do the right thing...

TI: Once you're in.

EW: ...once you're in, regardless of the cost. You can't join and say, "Well, I don't want to go to prison, so I'll just do whatever I'm told." No, you have to do the right thing regardless of the cost. If you're not willing to sacrifice that, if you're not willing to go to prison, if you're not willing to die, if you're not willing for your family to suffer, then you should not join the military.

TI: And so in the same way, now, if a soldier, whether officer or enlisted, came to you for advice because he or she believes that, like you, that the war is wrong and has to look at this, then what would your advice be? Would it be, again, to speak out? Or I should ask you, what would your advice be.

EW: I'd say you just need to do what you feel is right in your heart, and that's all there is to it. I'm not going to encourage them to follow the same path I have, or to keep their mouth shut. They just need to do what they feel is right. Because the circumstances are different. I certainly would have to have thought twice if I had a family to support, think twice about what I was going to do, and how that would affect them. And that's why I say, you have to think about all these things when you decide to join the military. Because what if you are put in a position where you have to decide between doing the right thing and taking care of your family? Don't put yourself in that position knowing that you might have to do that.

TI: You've been very generous with your time. So I guess I'm going to end it here, although I have lots more questions, I would love to spend more time with you. But just one last thought. Earlier you mentioned how the likelihood of the military acquitting you on the charges are pretty low. When you think about that, what are you looking, I mean, what's in front of you in terms of the, the possible sentence? What are people telling you in terms of what to expect in terms of a prison sentence for your decision?

EW: I talked to one of the JAG lawyers that I have, the JAG lawyer that I have, and he said that, "Look at between somewhere, two and four years. Six years is the maximum, probably not going to give you that because of the public ramifications, and that it would really look like they're just trying to make an example out of you." Certainly, that's what they're trying to do, they're trying to make an example out of me, which I think is, is a huge mistake. Not just because I'm trying to defend myself, but what you're doing, in essence, by setting an example out of me is sending the message to all active duty soldiers, or all soldiers, all members of the military and all potential members of the military, is that it doesn't matter what your personal beliefs are, you do what you're told to do. And who wants to stay in the military like that, and who wants to join the military? Only those with no choice, right? Again, it goes back to what I talked about, the economic draft. And certainly, like you said, I can, I can convey my advice to high schoolers, I can tell them what they should think about, but for a lot of them, it's a choice between going hungry and having a job, and a lot of them don't have a choice. And those are who the recruiters in the military know they have to target, and that's who they target, is those with no choice. Certainly, like I say, people in the middle class or lower-middle class, upper-middle class, we have a choice of going into the military. Some don't have a choice. So I think that those are the kind of things that we need to fix; we need to fix the fact that kids don't have any opportunities for education after high school, kids don't have jobs, people don't have jobs. We need to fix those things, and then we need to fix the rampant lawlessness within our own government. And then, then people who join the military will have a real choice.

<End Segment 28> - Copyright © 2006 Densho. All Rights Reserved.