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TI: Okay, so OCS, so what happened there?

EW: So OCS, you figure maybe you're gonna take a lot of classes on leadership. What it was, it was just a huge kind of hazing process, in which you're just made to do randomly stupid things for about fourteen weeks. [Laughs] And it's who can get through it, really, who can take it. And you know, not, the entire thing was not randomly stupid; they had some things that teach you basic leadership skills, and we did have classroom work, and we did have field time, and we did have basic infantry skills, infantry leadership skills. But a lot of it was physical and mental hazing, and trying to see who can make it, who can make it through.

TI: And so is that part of the process, because they are trying to weed out people, or why, why would they do that?

EW: They're trying to weed out people, is what they're trying to do. And the unfortunate thing is there are people who can get through it, and they might be really selfish people, or people who would not be good as leaders, but they're just able to get through it because they're mentally and physically tough. That's the unfortunate thing about the process. If it is indeed a hazing process, and a lot less emphasis is taught on what a brand new lieutenant is going to have to go through, the skills that they're gonna need, and what should be emphasized. It's, it's sparse, here and there. You know, you're gonna get taught some of these things, but the whole thing, the fourteen weeks, is just how much can you take before you just want to quit. And...

TI: So, does this process weed out some good people that you think would have made good officers, but they didn't, they didn't think that, they didn't go through the process? Because you said some people that you thought shouldn't be officers could make it, on the converse side, do you lose people because of this process?

EW: You may, but like I said, I think the biggest problem is that you're gonna keep guys who can just make it through that hazing. Yeah, you're gonna get through, you're gonna weed out some folks that aren't necessarily strong of mind or strong of body, but the ROTC program, which brings in the majority of officers, doesn't have that kind of hazing. The ROTC programs are designed to just get and retain who they can, and they don't go through the mental toughness, they don't have to go through the physical toughness. I mean, they have to be physically fit, they have to be able to do their book work for the, the ROTC leadership classes, and that's about it.

TI: So is there, is there like a hierarchy going into the military in terms of how you got in as an officer? Whether it's, I guess, the academies would be one way, ROTC's another, and then Officer Candidate School is another. I mean, is there like a hierarchy based on how you got in?

EW: I don't know. I think for the rank and file soldiers, for the enlisted, they value OCS guys because historically, OCS usually only brought in prior enlisted soldiers. So they would take guys from the enlisted ranks and say, "Do you want to be an officer?" And so they say, "Oh, sure," so they bring them in, and then they put them through this hazing process, and then they become officers. And so you get a lot of officers who used to be enlisted, so they know how it's been, and they know what it's like to be an enlisted soldier. Of course, it's been so hard to do that over the years that they've had to bring in people such as myself, who haven't been, who have no military experience, but just simply have a college degree, and who come in. Of course, we have to go through the hazing process, we have to go through the basic training, so we know a little bit of what it's like to be enlisted. Not so for the West Point guys that are ROTC. They have no idea, unless they were somehow in, were an enlisted soldier, and they went to college later on, through ROTC or West Point, but that's very rare.

TI: Yeah, because I didn't realize this. Because when you said you went through basic training with the enlisted, I didn't realize, I didn't think officers did that. So this was, this was different.

EW: Yeah. It's the OCS and even Army OCS is the only one that has their candidates go through, the trainees go through basic training, basic training first. The Air Force does not do that, Marines do not do that, nor does the Navy. And for the Army, West Point guys don't do that, or the ROTC. They go through their own kind of basic thing, but that's all the officers together, without any enlisted.

TI: Do you think then the -- just in general, this is kind of a generalization, but -- so officers who go through the OCS have a, perhaps a stronger connection with the enlisted men because of that?

EW: Uh-huh. Because of their, they used to be enlisted before. Or as in my case, I spent some time, at least, with the enlisted soldiers, being one of them.

TI: Okay, good.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2006 Densho. All Rights Reserved.