<Begin Segment 4>

AH: About what year was that fire that was set by his partners? About, what are we talking about here, in the '20s when you were very young? The fire that they set in order to collect the insurance.

JA: Oh, that was probably in the late '20s or into early '30s. Because my mother used to tell me, because for that, we had to, for ten years or better, make-up the whatever loss. And we had to, my mother had to make payments to whoever and used to show me stacks of receipts.

AH: Now, why was it that when this fire was set, they collected the insurance and your father was left out in the cold?

JA: Yeah, they tried and they couldn't get it. But they took off. But as far as the insurance company, there was things that were insured, even though he did not get anything, he had to make up for it.

AH: So he was paying back those, those obligations?

JA: That's right.

AH: Now, how did this affect your family's situation? Did you have to change your place where you were living? What ways did it reveal itself in terms of your circumstances?

JA: Okay. It made a lot of difference. Because up to that time, during Christmas I'd get all kinds of presents from the people that my dad helped set up in shoe repair. And we had the Italians, we had Japanese, we had Norwegians, they'd all come and used to come to our rented -- we didn't, we were not able to buy a house so we were renting it -- but they used to bring all of these things. And even to date I have some of these big Lionel train sets that were given to me and that was my time. My brother's time, it was all over, and he didn't have this present given to him, it was hard times only.

AH: And this wasn't just the general Depression, this also had to do with your family situation?

JA: Yes.

AH: Now, you mentioned two things in which, in effect, your dad's partners sabotaged him.

JA: Yes.

AH: In one case, it was Japanese, and the other case it's Jewish. How do you explain that? Was your dad an unusually trusting or gullible person?

JA: No, he was very trusting person. He said you have to... like people used to say, "How come you let these guys go out sell shoes, collect money and bank it?" He says, "You gotta trust them, if they're going to work." So in the same way, when he was told by this Jewish people that hey, why don't you get involved into shoe finding -- he just trusted them that they were straight.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 1997 Densho. All Rights Reserved.