Densho Digital Archive - Seiko Edamatsu Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

MA: So today is June 7, 2006, and I'm here in Seiko Edamatsu's home in Spokane, Washington. Dana Hoshide is our cameraperson today. So thank you, Seiko, for, for this interview.

SE: Well, thank you for asking me.

MA: I wanted to start off by asking you where and when you were born.

SE: I was born in Seattle, Washington, July 18, 1919. The, I think the house was on Washington Street, and I can't, of course I can't remember how it was before we moved to King Street, 1256 King Street, where my two younger siblings were born.

MA: And what was your name when you were born?

SE: Seiko Miyagawa.

MA: And where was your father from in Japan?

SE: From Kumamoto-ken.

MA: And when did he come over to the U.S., what year?

SE: Let's see. That I am a little confused on, but he came as a cabin boy, on, I think it was a fishing vessel. And I think he said it took them... let's see, a whole month to cross the Pacific Ocean.

MA: And then he landed in Seattle?

SE: In Seattle. And I think at that time, recruiters got them to go working at the sawmills in Snoqualmie. But when he got over there, it wasn't his bag of tea, as you say. [Laughs] He wasn't much for manual labor.

MA: I see. So he, when he came over to Seattle, he met with a recruiter who had him work in the Snoqualmie lumber industry, and he didn't enjoy it.

SE: No. So he decided to walk to Seattle from Snoqualmie. And he recalled the time when he was somewhere around Kent or Auburn, when the townspeople saw this strange young man walking, and they gathered around him and so he couldn't even go, move. And then an elderly gentleman came and dispersed the people and let him go on. But I guess, you know, I don't know what kind of clothes he wore or what.

MA: So were they more hostile, or curious?

SE: No, they were curious more than hostile. I don't think that, he didn't say anything about people being hostile, as well as just, just curious, because they hadn't seen a Japanese before. Then to see this boy -- I suppose he was strange, dressed strangely, and walking down the street. But probably he didn't have very good shoes, you know, that was a lot of miles to walk. I don't know how he found the way even, and so I know he said he developed corns and calluses, and he always had troubles with them after that.

MA: So he knew that he was headed for Seattle, he wanted Seattle to be his destination.

SE: Uh-huh. Well, his older brother was there.

MA: Do you know why he walked that whole way?

SE: Just didn't have the money, I suppose, to have any other way of going, but he was determined to go where he might find work, I think.

MA: Did he ever tell you why he left Japan for the United States?

SE: Well, they were a very poor family, and they didn't have a father. And I think even farming, they didn't have much. I think they just gathered wood, and sold firewood to people, because they all used those firewoods to cook with. But they really barely, I guess, scratched a living, so they left.

MA: So his brothers and your father saw the U.S. as an opportunity?

SE: Uh-huh. His older brother had come here first, so he was in the United States, so he came.

<Begin Segment 2>

MA: So what about your mother? Where was she from in Japan?

SE: Fukushima. And it would be strange to say that she was from, her father was a wealthy man, but he dealt in junk, you know, discarded, I suppose, things, and being able to salvage and sell it. He was very well-to-do. So he sent her to school, she, unusual for her time, because he sent her to Tokyo, and she was a graduate of Aoyama School over in Tokyo. So she was a college graduate.

MA: And then how did she end up in the United States?

SE: In the United States? I don't know how they heard about this minister that was gonna go, go to Seattle, and interesting enough, his name was Miyagawa, too. I think it was Reverend Miyagawa, and I don't know his first name or anything, but it's a Reverend Miyagawa that brought her.

MA: So was your mother Christian, was she raised Christian?

SE: No, no. Most likely Shinto or whatever they...

MA: So she met up with this, with this reverend somehow, and then they went over together?

SE: Uh-huh. Well, I think through the... I don't know whether they have mission school or something, and then they would help them, I think. I don't know whether, but through, I think, writing to Japan and having people write for them, yeah. So this reverend brought Mother over.

MA: And how did she meet your father?

SE: I really don't know that part of it, except that it's interesting because my, my father was supposed to marry one of three girls. The oldest married Father's older brother, and then he was supposed to marry the middle girl, and the younger one, youngest one married his younger brother. But Dad opted not to marry her. [Laughs] So he was a, sort of an outcast, and so was Mother, because partly, too, she came from a wealthy family, so she brought from Japan trunkloads of beautiful things from Japan. But they were useless here. She brought lots of kimonos, and she was dressing herself in Japanese kimonos, and her sister-in-laws looked at her and pooh-poohed her, you know, wearing Japanese kimono.

MA: They wanted her to wear Western-style?

SE: Uh-huh. So... but I don't know where Dad got this. He had quite a knack of buying clothes for kids. He did all right with all of us when we were growing up, he bought all our clothes, stylish for the time, and the right type of shoes, so we never were embarrassed with our clothes that we wore to school.

MA: So he was a very stylish man.

SE: Uh-huh.

<Begin Segment 3>

MA: So you said you were born in 1919, and what was your father's job at that time?

SE: He always dealt in real estate, and so he had an office as a real estate, and helped people find places for business and homes.

MA: Was this mostly with Japanese Americans?

SE: Well, yeah, Japanese, and he had an office down in Prefontaine Place in Seattle? You know of that?

MA: What was that?

SE: Prefontaine Place? Near Smith Tower. And I don't know, just years, a few years back, when we went to Seattle, we saw his business sign. He called his business Sankosha, and he had this, his logo and all.

MA: I see. So he was kind of a real estate...

SE: Uh-huh. He would find places for people to have businesses or to buy homes.

MA: Was he pretty successful during that time, financially?

SE: I think so, yes. He, well, there were eight of us. So an awful lot of kids to clothe and feed. I suppose we had some hard times and things, but, because the trouble was, he dealt so much with his Japanese friends, and so he would never bill them. You know, like you were supposed to bill them so many percent of what you do, so at Christmastime, we'd have our house, we don't know where to put 'em, sacks of rice and tubs of miso, and we had rice and miso, and he, I don't know where he learned how to make tofu. And he would start tofu-ya and teach people how to make it, but he never really liked the manual labor of doing it, I guess, so he would teach people how to make tofu and age, and he would start them in business. So he was mainly doing things that way instead of going out and working and earning regular money.

MA: Did your mother work as well?

SE: Busy having kids, she didn't have time. [Laughs] And then, let's see, when I was in, I think I must have been in kindergarten, we lived that house in King Street, there used to be a lower porch and an upstairs porch which had a railing around it. But it was about two feet from the edge of the house, the porch did not extend to the end of the house. And when I was about five years old, I was in school, why, my younger brother, the two younger brothers were playing outside, and Mother -- oh, I guess the youngest brother was still a baby. And Mother was going to put him for a nap, and she was in the upstairs, and she couldn't find the children, the other brother, and she was calling out to him and leaned over the banister and it broke, and she plunged to the ground below. Her head hit right between a brick walk -- no, her ankle, her feet, hit the brick walk, and her feet landed right down, I forgot how it was, but anyway, she crushed both ankles, she broke her hip and her leg, and the neighbor, my brother went and called the neighbor ladies and they, you know, in those days, they didn't know any better, they carried her into the house and onto the davenport, and then my brother called Dad at his office. Upstairs in Dad's office was a doctor, and so he and the doctor took a cab and went to the house. But in Japanese, when they say "wrist," they say tekubi. So my brother ran to the neighbor's house and told Dad that I had broken my neck. So the doctor didn't trust himself driving, he had a cab, they took a cab. And when I went upstairs to take a nap, to lie down, because it was in pain, and when they came, they came home, when I came out and stood at the top of the stairs, there were about thirteen steps, and I was walking down the steps, and the doctor gave a sigh of relief that I hadn't broken my neck. [Laughs]

MA: Was your mother able to recover from that fall?

SE: She was a cripple always. They didn't set the bone right, and so I know there was a couple that did needle, where they heat the needle and give you acupressure...

MA: Acupuncture?

SE: Acupress-, points for acupuncture where they use the needle to... so that's how they did for her.

MA: Wow.

<Begin Segment 4>

MA: So you said you grew up on King Street, right, between Twelfth and Rainier?

SE: Uh-huh. Close to Rainier.

MA: Was that a mostly Japanese neighborhood at that time? Or were there other...

SE: Mixture, mixture.

MA: What other sort of ethnicities were there?

SE: Well, right next door was the, was Japanese, and then next to that was Chinese. And I had a lot of Chinese friends.

MA: And which grade school did you attend?

SE: Bailey Gatzert School like all of 'em. [Laughs] And then of course after sixth grade, went to Washington school.

MA: What are some of your memories of, from Bailey Gatzert?

SE: Oh, Bailey Gatzert brings back lot of fond memories because they used to have that May Festival where each classrooms, the teacher somehow prepared some kind of program and then I think the first Friday in May or something we had a big assembly, and we all performed. Oh, we performed in, performed in each classroom, and then the whole school got to watch all the classrooms, and then those, the principal, Ms. Mahon, used to select the ones she thought was good to take part in the main one at the main auditorium where they... because everybody couldn't go to all the classrooms, and so the select programs were given in the main auditorium.

MA: And so at that time, Bailey Gatzert was mostly Japanese?

SE: Yes.

MA: Did all of your siblings to go Bailey Gatzert?

SE: Yes, uh-huh. What do they say? Did they say there were a thousand students, and about six hundred were Japanese. Something like that, I'm not that, more or less that proportion.

MA: And did you attend Japanese language school?

SE: No. I think mainly it was too expensive, but actually, my mother could have taught her, taught us, but she was busy with all the kids. And no, everyone, they went from Bailey Gatzert School to Japanese school, they all passed in front of our house, and I used to sit on the porch and watch them go, wishing I could go, I think, kind of, you know, to be with the rest of 'em.

MA: And your father didn't want you to go to Japanese language school, is that right?

SE: Well, I think maybe because they couldn't afford it.

MA: And then which language did you speak at home?

SE: At home was mostly Japanese.

<Begin Segment 5>

MA: So let's go back, so you said there were eight children in your family.

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: Can you name all the children in the order they were born? So starting with the oldest...

SE: Yeah, the oldest was Hiroji, let's see, he was, he was born in September. And he was born in... he was born in '09 or was it '10? Somewhere like that. I think 1910 and then Haru was born 1911, Etsu was born in 1913, and then Hiromichi was born in 1915, I guess, and then 1917 was Hiroyuki. And then myself, and then Hiromi in 19'... is it '21? '22?

MA: Which one was this?

SE: Hiromi, and then the youngest was born in 1926.

MA: And that was Hironori?

SE: Hironori, uh-huh.

MA: So your brothers, then, are Hiroji, Hiromichi, Hiroyuki, Hiromi and Hironori.

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: And then there's yourself, and your sisters are Haru and Etsu?

SE: Etsu, uh-huh.

MA: Wow, big family.

SE: Big family, uh-huh. So one thing, though, it was unusual for Japanese, that Dad always remembered our birthdays. And he used to sometimes have Kinka Low deliver a Chinese dinner for our birthdays. And one thing I remember was he always had a case of pop. We always got to choose the pop we wanted. [Laughs]

MA: So you celebrated all the birthdays?

SE: The birthdays, uh-huh.

MA: What other sorts of holidays or celebrations did you enjoy with your family?

SE: Of course, in those days, New Year's was the big thing. Yeah, they did a big spread. And then like with all the birthdays, and so, yes, we celebrated Easter and then Fourth of July, Mother always took us to the parade. And then we loved going to the parade, especially on the way home, we'd stop and pick up ice cream cone. [Laughs]

MA: Was that parade downtown?

SE: Uh-huh. But Mother loved parades, and she'd always take us down.

MA: So you said you were, you celebrated Easter, so your family was Christian?

SE: Christian, uh-huh, and we had a big to-do at church.

MA: Which church did you attend in Seattle?

SE: In Seattle? The Japanese Congregational Church, which was, at that time, when we were youngsters, it was just one block below Buddhist Church. It was there at the, sort of an apartment house, uh-huh.

MA: So right close to your home?

SE: Uh-huh, it was close to home.

<Begin Segment 6>

MA: So your father ran a hotel, is that right?

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: Around when did he acquire this hotel?

SE: In 1932, I think it was.

MA: So you were thirteen?

SE: Yeah, getting ready to go to high school, yeah.

MA: And what was the name of the hotel?

SE: U.S. Hotel there on Maynard, between Jackson and Main, across from the chamber of commerce.

MA: Oh, so right in the...

SE: Yeah, near Tokyo Cafe, in that area.

MA: And can you describe the hotel? What did it look like on the inside? How big was it, how many rooms?

SE: It had a total of... we thought it was hundred rooms. You know, when Dad was in, always was in real estate, and that was one of the buildings that he helped in the building of it at the... way back, I don't know when it was. And so when the man that was running it was afraid that there was going to be a Japanese-Manchurian war, he left the United States and went back to Japan, and he thought he owed a lot of money, he owed the laundry and I think the oil company that furnished the... so Dad assumed the bill, the debt, and so he didn't have any cash transaction, he just assumed the debts.

MA: I see. So he took it over from his friend who left to go back to Japan.

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: And how big was the hotel?

SE: It's got a hundred rooms. You know, right downtown there, across from the chamber of commerce, it's right there. It's still called, it still has the sign U.S. Hotel, however, it's apartments, now.

MA: And what, how much did your father charge for, like, one night accommodation?

SE: Rooms that were on the insides were fifty cents, and seventy-five cents a night for the outside rooms. And the clients were mostly train porters and train waiters, both waiters and porters, and so they were all blacks, but they were very clean and orderly, because, because of the type of jobs they had. So they weren't like the blacks that were around on the streets in Seattle.

MA: Around the hotel area?

SE: Well, generally on the streets. Because at the hotel, I think the hotel to the north of us was a Japanese-owned hotel, but I don't know if they did have very many overnighters, people that stayed by the month.

MA: So the porters and people that stayed in your father's hotel, in the U.S. Hotel, they weren't from Seattle?

SE: No.

MA: So they were, like, stopping over to rest?

SE: Uh-huh. Mostly from the Midwest or California, Los Angeles.

MA: What were the interactions like between, I mean, these African American porters and then your family and then the other Japanese residents?

SE: Oh, I don't know. Accepted, you know. They called Dad "Papa-san" and Mother "Mama-san."

MA: So it was pretty common, then, for, like, a Japanese-operated hotel to have a bunch of different types of ethnic groups in the, staying in the hotel?

SE: Yes. But because it was mainly train porters and waiters, it was mostly blacks and then a few Japanese lived there regularly, you know. There was a Japanese lady and her husband that lived there, that she had a beauty shop on Jackson Street, and she lived there and so did one of her girls that did the hair, she lived at our hotel.

<Begin Segment 7>

MA: You had mentioned that there was a group of Kibei that stayed at the hotel for a while.

SE: Well, they stayed at the hotel, and there are two large rooms that have... well, one doesn't have a street entrance, but one has a street entrance there on Maynard Avenue, and so the Kibei-Nikkei clubhouse was there, and then they had a ping-pong table.

MA: So was it mostly Kibei that would hang out at this place?

SE: Oh, yes, uh-huh.

MA: Did you sense that the Kibei sort of -- I don't know, how was the relationship between maybe the Kibei and then the other Niseis in the area?

SE: Other Niseis didn't have much to do with them. They did go to the same places, and so Kibeis more or less stuck by themselves. And then through their club, they did, did good for a lot of the Kibeis to find work.

MA: Why do you think there was kind of a divide between the Niseis and the Kibeis?

SE: Well, they spoke a different language, and I suppose the Niseis kind of looked down on the Kibeis.

MA: Because they spoke Japanese?

SE: Uh-huh. And then the Niseis, you know, had their own activities, and then they had the JACL, so they were entirely different. But a lot of the Kibeis did take part in things and become just, just like the Niseis.

MA: So it sounds like your father provided some sort of social setting for them to hang out in.

SE: Oh, yes. And then, you know, the Japanese churches had a youth conference once a year.

MA: Was this the Christian churches?

SE: Uh-huh, Christian churches. And so Dad would, our busiest times are, were in the summertime when the trains are running double schedule and things like that, so we would be real busy. In fact, sometimes we'd sell the same room two or three times a day, because those people just wanted to come -- [knocking sound] that's the dog -- bathe, just to come and bathe and take a nap, and then they'd go. And then I used to do the chambermaid work, so soon as the room would open up, I would go and clean up the room, and then we'd sell it again. So in the summertime, Dad did pretty good business.

MA: So I wanted to ask you a little bit about, again, about the porters, the African American porters who would stay.

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: So you, did you notice, then, a difference between maybe the African Americans from Seattle, the Seattle community, versus the ones who came from the Midwest or California?

SE: Well, in a way they were, I think, cleaner. They seemed cleaner and more apt to watch their language when they spoke in front of us and things. And they were very respectful. Of course, even the blacks in the city, I was known as Mama-san and Papa-san's daughter. [Laughs] And then Dad befriended some young blacks, and gave them odd jobs to do around, so they were very protective of me.

<Begin Segment 8>

SE: And then my oldest brother, at first in the early days, we had the highway market, and he was busy with the highway market. But we had a real big business out on the highway, and did real well.

MA: So just to clarify, this is a highway market, it was in Bothell, wasn't it?

SE: Uh-huh. We'd have to take the streetcar, it would take us about an hour to get out there.

MA: So your father operated this market along with the hotel, at the same time?

SE: No, for my oldest brother, when he finished high school. He was working for a, someone that had a highway market, and he was doing real well, and the customers liked him. But then he, Dad decided to, lot further out, he'd build one, and start my oldest brother in business.

MA: What kind of things did you sell at this market?

SE: It's fruits and vegetables and cigarettes and candy.

MA: Did it get a lot of business?

SE: Uh-huh. And sometimes my sisters used to say it was too much work to close the store, so they would leave it open all night. And being on the highway, why, there would be constantly somebody stopping by. It was handy because people would run out of bread and things, stores used to close tight, and so they would have bread and milk and bacon and eggs. I suppose they had wieners and things like that, so it was very convenient with all the fruits and vegetables, too.

MA: And how long did it take you to get from your home on King Street to this market?

SE: It took us about an hour, I think. Because it was past University District. Now -- I get kind of ahead of myself sometimes [laughs] -- because while we were on King Street, I don't think we had the highway market.

MA: Oh, I see, did your family live in the hotel? Did they move from King Street to live in the hotel?

SE: So it was about the same time, and they bought the place out at the highway. And so we were all supposed to move out there, and then my mother, not wanting to be out there, why, they, she and part of the family went down to the hotel to live, because she wanted to be where she can get, get to the stores, into town.

MA: I see. So your family kind of split up at that point?

SE: Split up, uh-huh.

MA: So half went to the Bothell market, and half went to maybe the U.S. Hotel.

SE: Uh-huh. And then... my oldest sister used to work at the Pike Place Market.

MA: What did she do there?

SE: She sold vegetables, you know, in the food stand. And she was very good at it, and I think there's a picture of her up in the, at the Pike Place Market. Especially her, they were hard-working, and every penny that they made, they took home to Mother. And so she said that no matter how much she complained, the oldest daughter, oldest sister gave all the money to Mother, and she spoiled my second-oldest brother by giving him the money, 'cause she had the money. So he was a dropout, never finished high school.

MA: Which, which sibling is this?

SE: Hiromichi, the second.

MA: So I wanted to ask you more about this market. So did you go out and live near the market, or did you stay in the, in the hotel?

SE: No, see, let's see. When he built that market, he built a house behind it thinking that the family was going to move out there. In fact, he moved all the furniture into the house, but Mother didn't want to go out and live among Caucasians, not knowing any Japanese out there, why, she didn't want to go out there at all.

MA: But you actually went out with your brother?

SE: I went because I had already signed up to go to high school out at Roosevelt High School when I graduated.

MA: Oh, Roosevelt High School?

SE: Uh-huh. So I lived out there, so Dad hired a Issei man to live out there to be there, and he was a cook. And so he would cook our meals, and then he was there as a support for my sister to, you know, when she had, had to, sometimes she stayed open all night, but to help her close and everything.

MA: So then in the house it was the Issei man and your brother and sister and you?

SE: Yes.

MA: Living up near Bothell?

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: What was that like, living away from your parents?

SE: Well, it didn't last too long because I went, we always had a room in the hotel, our own room, so I stayed at the hotel and went to high school by taking the streetcar. So that was quite a commute.

<Begin Segment 9>

MA: What were your experiences like at Roosevelt High School?

SE: Roosevelt? Why, it was real good, I had a, of course, there was a Japanese girl that was a year ahead of us that was sort of what they had, I forgot what they called it, but, you know, sisters...

MA: A mentor?

SE: Yeah, uh-huh, to make sure that I felt at home. And then there were other Japanese from, there was a girl from Kingston that was doing housework out that way, so she was in the school. In fact, she was in the same grade, her name was Kiyoshi Kamikawa, she was, she eventually married Toru Sakahara, wasn't it, I think, yeah. Kiyoshi Kamikawa. She was quite well-known.

MA: So how many Nisei students were at Roosevelt when you were there?

SE: Oh, there were just a few of us, three or four.

MA: What was that like, I mean, being one of the few Niseis in an all-white school?

SE: I don't know. I didn't feel any different. I took part in sports and made friends that way. In fact, one of my best friends was about 5'11", 'cause she and I played ping pong, and we were partners. [Laughs]

MA: What other sorts of hobbies did you do when you were that age, in high school?

SE: I did everything, because I played baseball, volleyball, and so I took part in all the after-school sports. So yeah, letter-wise, I was on the letter club. I had a sweater, and I don't know what happened to the sweater, it got lost. I had a "R" sweater.

MA: When you were in high school, what sorts of social activities did you do with your friends?

SE: Well, not too much, because I lived so far away. And so just took part in the sports parts of things, but I didn't take part in other things.

<Begin Segment 10>

MA: So when you were living up in north Seattle, then, were there other houses nearby, or were you pretty isolated?

SE: No, pretty much isolated, yeah. There was a couple of homes sort of beside and behind us, but they had little children.

MA: And how often would you go back to see your parents at the hotel?

SE: It varied, you know. Let's see. We didn't live out, out there too regular. I maintained my room at the hotel, and I was home more, at the hotel than back there, because the family meals, but out there at the market -- well, we did help with the sister having to have somebody to eat with, and the second brother would help a little. But they always seemed to have their baseball, basketball, different things, they were gone. And so the girls did a lot of work, most of the work. My brother, the oldest brother was terrible. He'd go down to the market to buy vegetables, and he'd go to the back, and they would gamble, and he'd take the money that the girls gave him to gamble. And so he didn't have much money, and much of the time, the girls didn't know it, that he bought things on credit.

MA: Where would he go to gamble, what sorts of places were there?

SE: Oh, in back of the... what do they call it? Western Avenue or something, where they have the wholesale vegetables, and they'd go down in the, they pick up the vegetables there. And he'd go and gamble in the back. So sometimes he had to bring home the leftovers, and the girls had a hard time selling those things, but they had such staunch neighborhood people that would come in and buy fruits and vegetables from them. So it was sad when they finally decided, it was terrible because, then the girls didn't go back anymore, and I'd go to the house from school, I'll go back there, and then I'll come home to Seattle. But I'd go and get things, some vegetables and things for home.

MA: Oh, I see. So your brother would go to the, to pick up fruits and vegetables so you could sell at your, at the market in north Seattle, and then he would stay and gamble. Is that what happened?

SE: Well, lot of times he gambled, he didn't bring the vegetables 'til late. So it was hard for the girls. I think he was too young to have that responsibility of all that money, and I think that, and he had a weakness for gambling, so it was a responsibility that Dad shouldn't have given, given him, and to have that money in hand.

MA: Was gambling a common...

SE: It's a common thing at those wholesale houses.

MA: Was it mostly, sort of, Nisei young men?

SE: Oh, no, everybody, the Caucasians and the Italians, because lot of the farmers were Italians. So mostly were older men, you know. Here he was a youngster, too young to be with those men gambling. But it's like any kind of sickness, you know, if you have the money in hand, you're going to gamble. And then when you lose, then you think, "I got to get it back, I got to get it back."

<Begin Segment 11>

MA: So you actually spent one year, so you did three years at Roosevelt, is that right, and then one year at Garfield?

SE: Yes. Let's see. At the freshman and sophomore year, I went to Roosevelt, and then we were living in town, so then, so my third year I went to Garfield, but I was homesick for my friends.

MA: Your friends from Roosevelt?

SE: Uh-huh. So I wanted to graduate with them.

MA: I see, so you went back to Roosevelt for your senior year, to finish your, your high school experience?

SE: [Nods]

MA: So you went to, you got two schools, experienced two schools. How different were Garfield and Roosevelt at that time? How did they differ?

SE: Well, to me, it didn't seem any different. You know, the people that I, my classmates and everything, I don't know, it seemed like... it could have been that maybe there was some discrimination, but I don't remember any. Of course, we ate lunch with some of the Japanese that were there at school.

MA: 'Cause, did Garfield have a bigger Japanese population?

SE: Oh, yes, uh-huh. In fact, when I went to Garfield, I went with my brother, my younger brother, 'cause he only went, went to Garfield.

MA: And then what year did you graduate from high school?

SE: '37.

MA: 1937.

<Begin Segment 12>

MA: Okay, so you said you graduated in 1937.

SE: Yes.

MA: And what did you do after graduation? Did you go to school?

SE: I went to Seattle Pacific College, and I went there for half a year or something, and my father got sick with typhoid fever and ended in the hospital. And so...

MA: How did he get the typhoid fever?

SE: We assume that it, he, he and another fellow got typhoid fever at the same time, and they, that other fellow, I think, was working in a fish market. He used to go eat at, my father would run in and have, and he loved oyster cocktail. And I think that that's where they got it, from the oyster.

[Interruption]

MA: So your father got typhoid fever from some oysters, you think.

SE: We assume it was from the oysters.

MA: And when he got sick, what happened to your college career?

SE: I dropped out and went to work. And having helped with, at the, my uncle's cafe, restaurant, I was able to get work at the Tokyo Cafe, which was so close to home, and it was very convenient for us.

MA: So you had to drop out, was it for financial reasons?

SE: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

MA: So you were at college for about six months?

SE: I can't remember, it must be about six months.

MA: And what was your experience like, just in that short time you were there?

SE: At the college?

MA: Yeah.

SE: Well, we were sort of... I'd say rebels. [Laughs]

MA: What do you mean?

SE: 'Cause I went to a very sedate Christian college. And, and I made a few friends, Caucasian friends, that we did things together. At school, we had, on Mondays they had, Monday nights they had vesper services, and most of the students were on campus, going, staying at the dormitory. And so we'd go to the vesper service at, I think it was Monday nights, and then I had some friends that lived about two blocks from college, that she used to, she and her brothers were going to school from Wenatchee, and they had apartments upstairs at the home of Dr. Frank Warren. And so they'd invite me over, and I'd have dinner with them, and then we'd go to the vesper service together. So I had a very happy time, I think.

MA: What were you studying in college?

SE: Well, I was supposed to do Christian education. Dad wanted me to go into Christian education and see if I could do church work or something, I guess. But me and a lot of the girlfriends, we did things together, and went to their homes. And these, I think they were boy and girl, twins, from Wenatchee, that lived in this home, they had apartments above Dr. Warren's house, so they had, their folks were sending them to school there. So they had, I guess the folks did a lot of canning and they canned meats and things. And so when they had, had me over for dinner, why, it was all these home-canned food that we had together. And I had a great time with them. It was interesting because she was going to nursing, the girl was going to nursing school, and when she was doing her... I forgot whether it was training or whether she was already a nurse, but she was at the Swedish Hospital, and she was a nurse for my father.

MA: Oh, when he was in the hospital for typhoid?

SE: Hospital for typhoid fever, yes.

MA: How long did it take him to recover through that illness?

SE: I'm trying to remember. I forgot how long he was in the hospital, but I do remember that one, one night, I had a lot of callers, and people would come to the front door, and they ring the bell, and what happened was some lady went to the hospital to visit my father, and they told him that she couldn't see him because he had typhoid fever. Well, she misunderstood, that he had "died from fever." You know, Isseis' English, "typhoid fever," and she said, "died from fever."

MA: So she was confused.

SE: Uh-huh. And she spread that thing around, and I had a terrible, we had a terrible time at home, because we had people coming to the house to express their condolences, and we'd have to say, "Stop, don't say anything," because I said, "I'm just talking to my mother at the hospital, he's doing, Dad is doing all right," you know. Oh, that lasted for quite a while.

MA: It's interesting how that spread throughout the community pretty fast.

SE: Oh, yes, uh-huh. And I'd be walking in Jackson Street, and people would bow and say, "We're so sorry." It was, it was quite a time, but we were fortunate to say, "No, he's okay." [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 13>

MA: So let's go back to, you said you started work after you had to drop out of college, at the Tokyo Cafe.

SE: Yes.

MA: And where was this cafe located?

SE: It was, it's on Jackson Street, just off Maynard Avenue.

MA: Right near your hotel.

SE: So it was just... hotel, uh-huh. So many of the same people that stayed at the hotel were restaurant, and customers.

MA: So the porters...

SE: Uh-huh. And because the porters and waiters were used to tips, I was tipped very generously. In fact, one thing I'll say about the blacks, they don't think of when the next meal is coming. So they like to flourish and they'll, if the, what they had was fifty cents for a meal, they'll say, "Keep the change," put out a dollar, and then so I'd pocket that money. And then maybe in a day or two, that fellow's broke or near broke, and so I'd give him the money.

MA: So the clientele was mostly these African American railroad workers, porters.

SE: Uh-huh, but many of them were from the streets of Seattle, you know.

MA: So it was kind of a mixture of people?

SE: Uh-huh. Now, my oldest brother worked for the China Cab.

MA: And this is...

SE: Hiroji.

MA: Hiroji.

SE: They called him Freddy.

MA: Freddy?

SE: Uh-huh. And he worked for the China Cab, and the China Cab did not have a office, and their telephone was outside of Tokyo Cafe. So...

MA: So this was a cab service in Chinatown?

SE: Uh-huh. It catered mostly to prostitutes and... yeah. So much of the time, the prostitutes would order liquor and they'd call the cab, and the cabbie would take it up there, buy it for them and get it for them.

MA: But they had, they sort of stationed in front of the Tokyo Cafe?

SE: Uh-huh, so they sat in the cab and listened to the phone, and then they just went in the cab. And so my oldest brother, after he lost his market, why, he was hanging around, so he was a cabbie, and he drove. So I felt comfortable working there, because it was, most, lot of the people I knew, and then close to Dad's hotel, and with my brother working as a cab driver right outside.

MA: So with your brother working for this cab company, how busy were they? I mean, was it constantly they were jumping in their car to go pick someone up?

SE: Uh-huh. They're, they were pretty busy. Of course, there were times when they were not, but then as a whole, they were pretty busy.

MA: And you said that they sort of, the prostitutes, kind of used the cabs a lot to get liquor.

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: Was that, were they nearby in that area? Or where, you know, where was that... where was that sort of district?

SE: Some might have been in the hotels around, and then, let's see. Where did some of them live? But they were fairly close by, I think. But they used the cab a lot to travel.

<Begin Segment 14>

MA: Going back to the Tokyo Cafe, what, what was the atmosphere like in the cafe when you were working? What was the atmosphere like?

SE: Oh, let's see. It was, the boss was a Issei man, and his wife was the head waitress. And there was another Japanese Issei lady working there. And I being the only young one, why, I don't know, I was, lots of customers wanted me to wait on them. And I know it made the Issei lady unhappy sometimes, and also they all, I always got the better tips, because, yeah, they, men did tip the young girls more. [Laughs] So I always had a pocket full of money. But the one, one bad thing was my boss was not good at paying, and I never got a real salary, 'cause he knew I was getting money from tips. So...

MA: Who were some of the other waiters and waitresses? Were they also Niseis?

SE: No. For a short time, they had another Nisei girl, but she was really part-time. And then, see, the lady was the boss's mistress, and her son was one of the waiters, and so... yeah, that was all they needed.

MA: So in terms of the clientele there, so it sounds like it was pretty racially...

SE: Diverse, uh-huh.

MA: Diverse. So was it a pretty jovial atmosphere?

SE: I think so, yes.

MA: And I think a lot of it is, was, well, because I knew the, many of the customers, and then with my brother being in there, too, why, it was quite open, and it was fun to go to work. You know, I didn't dread going to work. Some, some days it was long, but as a whole...

MA: So can you describe maybe the neighborhood around the cafe and around the hotel? What businesses were there?

SE: Well, on Jackson Street there was a Japanese shoe store, and then there were two, you know, the Higo Ten Cent store, and then they had another Jackson Street Ten Cent store. I don't know, they seemed like they didn't have any exciting business, but then it, that big, big ten cent store, I think the people owned the whole building and everything, so I guess to them it wasn't that important to be busy. But the Issei lady that was working there, she worked there for many years.

MA: At Higo Ten Cent store?

SE: Yeah, uh-huh.

MA: There was also the Jackson Street Cafe. Was that a pretty popular one?

SE: Oh, yes, that was very popular. It was popular... you know, the clientele was entirely different.

MA: How so?

SE: See, because the Tokyo Cafe had the blacks, and the people from the streets there, but Jackson Cafe was a little bit high-class, and they had Japanese businessmen going there.

MA: So you could see a real difference between the two.

SE: Oh, yeah, they're a little different, uh-huh.

MA: So your brother worked for China Cab, right?

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: Who were the other drivers that he would work with in the cab company?

SE: Well, he had some... they had some Chinese men, and then they had this one, I don't remember if he worked then. I don't know, his last name is Nakamura, they called him "Rhino." Have you heard of him?

MA: So Rhino was also a driver?

SE: Uh-huh. And then on the corner they had the Arizumi Drugstore, and it was a Japanese, the owner was a young girl. But she was older than my oldest brother, so she was quite old. And then her brother helped her at the drugstore. But my brother, my brother and this Joe Arizumi, they were gamblers, and sort of, you know, I think people in the neighborhood looked down on them as street kids, like.

MA: And maybe Tokyo Cafe was a hangout for them?

SE: Yes. Well, the drugstore was, too.

MA: Oh, the drugstore. What was, I guess, what was the nightlife like, I mean, around when it would be evening time, were there a lot of people walking around?

SE: I think so, yes, uh-huh. It was a noisy area. I think the restaurants were busy, but I worked 'til five o'clock or six o'clock, five o'clock, I think, but I didn't work the dinner shift, so I started in the morning, nine to five more or less.

MA: And how long did you work at the Tokyo Cafe?

SE: Goodness, I don't know how many years.

MA: So you started in maybe 1938 or '39?

SE: Probably. So it wasn't really that long, huh?

MA: Couple years?

SE: Probably so.

<Begin Segment 15>

MA: So I wanted to talk a little bit about Pearl Harbor and the day, December 7, 1941.

SE: Oh, yes.

MA: What are your memories of that day, and hearing about the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

SE: It was a big shock, and there were, the busses from Fort Lewis dropped all the soldiers off at the restaurant. So we were just swamped with GIs all day and every day. I had to weave my way through the, through the soldiers that hung around the restaurant. Many of them just hung around with cups of coffee is all, you know.

MA: Were they sent into Seattle to, like, protect the city?

SE: I don't know. I guess so, I don't know, they were, they were all over. I think, too, that they didn't know what to do themselves, except to see that there was order, I guess. Of course, the FBI was rounding people up and things like that. So when the people in the Japanese community asked Dad to speak to them at the, at the chamber of commerce there, my sister told him that, stay away, because she said, "They're looking for Japanese leaders to put them in." But he said that, just to calm the people's nerves, you know, and to tell people to stay calm and wait for orders to find out what we're supposed to do. And not get excited and do things that's not necessary.

MA: Was your father ever approached by the FBI?

SE: No, he never was. But I had a cousin that was married to a man that worked for, like the Furuya company, that did trading with Japan and Japanese firm, I know he was taken the first night. And because he was taken in, I know the wife was having a terrible time because they froze their assets, and she couldn't get the money. And so my cousin hung herself, they, she committed suicide, 'cause she was desperate, she didn't know what to do. They seized her husband, she had no money, everything was, so she just hung herself. And Dad had quite a terrible time because he had to tend to her funeral and things. But I could see where she had a young son, and having her husband seized like that, and not knowing what was happening to her, why...

MA: What happened to her son?

SE: Her son, her sister took him. Her sister was Mrs. Tura Nakamura, so he was quite a leader in the Seattle, he was on, at that time, he was announcing for the Japanese community on... what was it? It was radio? Yeah. So, yeah, it was a difficult time.

MA: Yeah, and I think that highlights the fear and anxiety that was going through the community.

SE: Oh, yeah, not knowing.

MA: How were your, your parents during that time? Did they talk with you much about what was going on, or what they thought about things?

SE: No. Well, I know they were talking about, a lot about so-and-so having been picked up.

<Begin Segment 16>

MA: So do you remember first hearing about the government's decision to remove people into camps? Do you remember hearing about that?

SE: Oh, yes. We, there were rumors, of course, lot of rumors.

MA: What sorts of rumors were out there before it actually happened?

SE: That everybody was going, we were all going to be taken in and put into camps. And so I had, the first weekend in March...

MA: Was this 1942?

SE: Uh-huh. I was a member of the Seattle Christian Youth Council, and every year, in the first weekend in March, we have a conference on one week, one time it would be in Seattle, and another time it would be Wenatchee, and then another year it would be in Spokane. That year it was supposed to be in Spokane, so I told my father that I was going to attend the conference, so I will pack my bag and I'll go to Spokane and see if I could find a housework job. And if I could find one, I'll send for them.

MA: Was this during the "voluntary evacuation" period?

SE: Uh-huh, evacuation, uh-huh.

MA: So what did your father say when you told him this?

SE: Yeah, well, I was coming anyway, so, yeah, so he said, "Go ahead." And so immediately I called, and the people that I was working for, the lady had gone back East to say goodbye to her son who was a doctor that was going to Italy for being drafted as a doctor. So she had to leave, and so I had full responsibility for the home, and she had, they had, their niece was visiting, and so she was a, she's a proofreader, and she was a proofreader for a mystery story writer. So they were living at the house at the time, so we took over and she left to say goodbye to her son.

MA: And what about your siblings? You, most were in Seattle, but you had a couple brothers who were in Alaska?

SE: Alaska, uh-huh.

MA: What ended up happening with them, with the mass removal?

SE: They went to Puyallup, and they went to Minidoka with the rest of them. Let's see. My sister was working for, she was a housemaid for a widow on Seattle's First Hill, and so I knew that they were gonna have to leave. So through the help of an employment agency here in Spokane, I got them both a job in homes here in Spokane. For the second sister, she was an experienced maid, she knew how to give dinner parties and things. So I, I got her a job with a pediatrician, a Dr. Barnett, his home, 'cause they were fancy people. And then my oldest sister, I was able to get her a job in the home of Eric Johnston, and he became the United States, president of the U.S. Film Industry, as well as... what was it? Film Industry... well, anyway, he was a big man, and he turned out to be a big man in Washington, so my sister had no trouble.

<Begin Segment 17>

MA: So you then came over first to Spokane, by yourself, is that right?

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: And you said the first weekend in March, in 1942. What were you thinking when you first arrived in Spokane and you were alone?

SE: Well, it's interesting, I am, I took a room at a downtown hotel, and I had a friend, Miyo Migaki, and so in order to get to her place, I needed a ride, and so I called the Yuasa family, who lived, lived across the street from the Migakis. And right away they came down and got me at the, at the hotel.

MA: So how long did you stay at the hotel? Was it a couple nights?

SE: I never slept a night. Immediately, the lady said, "You don't stay in a place like that," and she said, they were all daughters, she had daughters, so she said, "You could stay here." And I stayed with them 'til I found permanent housework.

MA: What were your first impressions of Spokane?

SE: Well, I knew many of the people from the different church conferences that I'd been to. And then with Dad having the hotel and having open hotel for people from Spokane, Yakima, and Wapato, he always opened the hotel for free lodging for them. So then when they had a baseball tournament in Seattle, well, they all came and stayed at the hotel, so I knew the young people here, so I felt at home here. I was very lucky, because of our connection with the people.

MA: Spokane's Japanese community seemed very, it's smaller than Seattle's.

SE: Oh, yeah. And they resented people coming from Seattle, because they were afraid that the government might move them, too. So they resented influx of Japanese, too many coming from Seattle. And so they wanted to discourage.

MA: What sort of things would they do to maybe discourage people from coming over, or how did they show their resentment, I guess?

SE: Well, first of all, being not friendly. Yeah, they were cold to them at church and things. But so many of them had stayed at our hotel and have known them, so I was lucky in that way. And so same with my folks, because they were able to go to church and felt like they belonged.

MA: I see. So you maybe felt a little more accepted, because you had known these people from before, but other people who had come over, maybe...

SE: Maybe didn't feel that way, uh-huh. I think they had a more difficult time. But that Mrs. Migaki was a very friendly, open-hearted person, and she would welcome everybody to their home, so when the WSU students would come to Spokane for weekends or something, her home was overflowing with young people that came to visit. And of course, it helped to have four daughters. [Laughs]

MA: What, what job did you end up doing in Spokane after you got here? What work did you find?

SE: I immediately found housework, because I felt, you know, at that time, when you come like that, you don't have a home, you don't have family, and working in a home, you feel safe. And then, and then I was at the employment agency, and I was sitting kind of discouraged. Because when I was trying to first find day work and things, people wanted to, "Was she checked with the FBI?" you know, was I cleared with the FBI and all those things. And I said, "I'm a citizen, I shouldn't have to be cleared by FBI." And, but there's a feeling inside that that isn't quite enough. [Laughs] But I was fortunate in that the lady from the employment agency was real good. She sent me to places that was very friendly, kind and friendly. But it was interesting, I was sitting there, I think it was a Saturday. Anyway, I was sitting there in the office kind of wondering what's going to happen with me, you know, and this lady brusquely walked in and said, "I need a maid, and I need one desperately, right now." And the girl says, "Well, there's one sitting right there." She come over to me and says, "My, you have tiny hands. Do you think you could do the work?" And I said, "I took care of my dad's hundred-room hotel," and she said, "Oh, yes. But can you cook?" That's when my face fell. "No, I'm afraid I can't cook." "You mean to tell me you don't know how to cook?" And I says, "No, but I cooked in my dad's home." But you know, that's different from a Caucasian home. And so she says, "If you could, if you were able to cook in your dad's home, you could cook in mine. We eat very simply. When can you start?" [Laughs] And so I, I started.

MA: And did you stay with that family?

SE: Uh-huh, until married Ed, married him right from her house.

MA: Wow. So you got to Spokane in March, the beginning of March, and then when did the rest of your family come over? You had talked about sponsoring them, or finding them jobs. When was it that they were able to come over to Spokane?

SE: Just about at the deadline, I guess, 31st of March. But the Blairs' son was enlisting in the navy in Seattle, and so they said that he could pick up my sister. And so if, at least one of them, with his car. So I got in touch with my sister, and he took her directly to the home of the pediatrician. So they never had to go to a hotel or anything, they went straight. And then my other sister, I got her a job at the home of Eric Johnston, and she went there, too, directly.

<Begin Segment 18>

MA: What happened with your family's home and the hotel when you all left Seattle?

SE: When we left, Dad rented a, he had one of the men, men that was working at the hotel, doing odd jobs, I think it was, as a manager, and then... and then there was a night clerk that watched at night. And he left the business with them, and then the house, they... I don't know if he met them, rented to those people, or I don't know how he rented the house. But it turned out to be a disaster, because they were more or less like hillbillies from Montana. [Laughs] Yeah, they made a mess of the house. Yeah, 'cause they didn't bother to vacuum or anything.

MA: So you had a bad experience in that house, what about the, the hotel? How was that kept up?

SE: Oh, the hotel was fine, it ran... and I don't know financially how they did it, but... but I do remember our folks going back to Seattle. I don't know when it was. We bought a house in Seattle on Beacon Hill, in fact, we lived there, 1539 14th Avenue South.

MA: And this was before the war?

SE: Uh-huh, before we went, yeah. I have, I have, I had a brother that was at Firland Sanitarium.

MA: Firland Sanitarium?

SE: Firland tuberculosis sanitarium. And Dad had bought that house with the hopes that when he was able to get out of the hospital, that we would have a nice home for him. So we bought this house in, on Beacon Hill, and he fixed a room special for him that would have plenty of sun.

MA: And what, what year was he admitted to the sanatorium?

SE: He went there I think the year I graduated high school.

MA: 1937?

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: And how long was he in there?

SE: Twelve years. I think it was twelve years.

MA: Wow, that long.

SE: Uh-huh. And so he was, he has a story on, on how he was kept within, he couldn't leave the hospital grounds and things, you know, because, being "enemy alien," I mean, to them.

MA: I see. So they wouldn't let him leave, they sort of restricted him, more so than the other patients.

SE: There was no place to go anyway. But he made very good friends with, with a nurse. I guess her husband, her husband was a patient out at Firland, and she was a nurse out at Firland. And when he got out, they got married, but she ended up in the hospital, too. They, they took him in when he got out, and he stayed with them. They lived at West... no, not West Seattle. Queen Anne. They lived out in Queen Anne.

MA: Were you able to stay in touch with friends that were sent to camp...

SE: Yes, uh-huh.

MA: ...from Seattle, like in Minidoka?

SE: Uh-huh. So when I had my, after working for one year, the Blairs gave me a week's vacation. So in the meantime, my brothers from Alaska went to camp, and then my brother had, brother's wife had a baby in camp. And so Dad wanted to see his first grandson, so we went to visit them in Minidoka for one week. I, I stayed just one week, because that was all -- in fact, not even one week, because that was my vacation, first vacation. But the folks stayed on, I don't know whether they stayed three weeks or what, but they stayed on.

MA: Where did you all stay when you were in Minidoka?

SE: You know, they gave us a visitor's apartment, I guess. We had one of the blocks, and we stayed.

MA: What did you think when you kind of went to visit camp?

SE: Well, it was like going on a picnic. [Laughs] It was kind of a fun experience, because, like, all your friends are all eating together. And so for me it was, like I say, fun, but it wasn't for them. This is what we did, this is all we did. When it's day after day, same old thing, yeah.

<Begin Segment 19>

MA: So you had, you had mentioned this sort of cold attitude from the Spokane Japanese community...

SE: Oh, yes.

MA: ...when people first started coming over.

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: When did that start to change? When did that sort of attitude start to change?

SE: I'm not sure just when. It was a gradual thing, but it was interesting, you know, because they had known me and seen me many times, so they would right in front of me, me and my sister, they would say, "It's terrible, all these people coming from Seattle." [Laughs] Forgetting that I was one of them.

MA: What did you say when people would say this to you?

SE: "Well, they have no place else to go," you know. Some of them took jobs and went clear over to Chicago and things, but it's hard when there's no other Japanese, somebody that you know. Some did have friends, and they'd go over.

MA: And you think a lot of that attitude was because they were maybe afraid that more Japanese coming over would attract more attention to them?

SE: Oh, yes, I think so. 'Cause they did, they did resent us. But I think I came enough ahead.

MA: How long did your, your mother and father stay in Spokane?

SE: Dad lived at the Clem Hotel, but he wanted to have a business here in Spokane. And so he had us... let's see. He had Mr. Blair, who was an attorney, have a meeting with the people from the city council in Spokane, to see if Dad could have, find some business here in Spokane. And one of the commissioners, safety commissioner, of course, spoke up and he said, "We don't want any more Jap money in downtown Spokane." So Dad said, "This discrimination here is because the city is too small, so I'm going to go where it's bigger, and you could get lost in the crowd." So almost overnight he made up his mind he was going to go to Chicago. I guess he had a distant cousin over there, and so he said, "I'm going to go to Chicago," he just up and left by himself. I don't think my brother went with him.

MA: So your mother was still in Spokane.

SE: Oh, yes. They had to run the hotel here, yet.

MA: Oh, they had to run the hotel in Seattle?

SE: Let's see. I'm trying to remember, get it straight. He had a hotel here, wasn't it? Yeah, he had a hotel here. He just had a little hotel that was... I'm trying to think of the name of the hotel, Globe Hotel.

MA: And that was in --

SE: No, that wasn't the Globe. It wasn't the Globe. But anyway...

MA: So he operated a small hotel...

SE: A small hotel.

MA: ...in Spokane?

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: After he came over.

SE: Yeah, it was right above the Union Gospel Mission, I think. No, that wasn't it either. Well, whatever. [Laughs] I can't, some things are kind of vague now.

MA: I see. So your mother stayed in Spokane to deal with the hotel, and your father left for Chicago.

SE: Uh-huh. It was after my brother had got out of service and come to Spokane. I had a brother that was in the service.

MA: Which, which brother was in the service?

SE: Hiromi.

MA: Hiromi.

SE: Uh-huh. He was in the service, and they, he was discharged in San Francisco, I think. Then he came up here.

<Begin Segment 20>

MA: So going back a little bit, you said that your father sort of experienced this discrimination, and that's what made him want to go to Chicago.

SE: Well, it's just this one man that said, "We don't want any more Jap money in downtown Spokane."

MA: Did you ever experience any, anything like that?

SE: No, that was the only, only time anybody said anything like "Jap" or anything, it was just that one man. As a whole, I've had very good experience. People have been good to me.

MA: And then what, what did your father end up doing in Chicago? Did he open a hotel or apartment?

SE: Uh-huh. He immediately got us started out with a small hotel or rooming house or whatever. Then as he got used to the atmosphere, the people and all, he was able to find a bigger place. So by the time that we visited them, he was already running a fair-sized hotel.

MA: So you were able to visit him in Chicago.

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: Was there a, do you remember if there was a large Japanese American community in Chicago?

SE: No, they were so widespread. But, yeah, there was no organization or any churches until, I think, the war. And then the different groups like the Buddhist groups, I think, that there wasn't any strong, Japanese were spread out, few Japanese.

MA: And then when did your mother and your, some of your siblings end up moving to Chicago to join him?

SE: My, my brother, when he got out of service, he joined him to help him run the hotel. My father was one never to stay put. [Laughs] He, when he was in Seattle, anytime he used to come home from school or anything, the minute I entered the door, "Oh, you're home. Bye," and he was gone. And sometimes I didn't see him for dinner, or 'til late at night.

MA: What would he do all day?

SE: He, his... evangelistic work. He'd go visit. I'd say, we don't have any money for anything, but somehow he'd scrounge up some money to buy flowers to visit somebody at the hospital, or somebody's... and then he was a good one for sitting with family when they had a death in the family. It used to, they used to bring the bodies home, huh? And he would sit with the bodies. And so many a time he'd be at somebody's home sitting with the family. 'Cause lots of times the family members didn't want to be in the same house with a body, and he would sit with the family. But you know, that was a tradition, huh, they used to bring the bodies home.

MA: So then your father sounds like a real, sort of, community leader.

SE: Uh-huh. So I think it was... he visited people whether they were church people or not.

MA: Did he end up staying in Chicago permanently after he moved from Spokane?

SE: Uh-huh. Well, the field was big. [Laughs]

MA: Did he ever consider moving back to Seattle?

SE: Oh, no, no. In fact, he started a church in Chicago.

MA: Which church? What's the name?

SE: He called it, I think it was the Church of Christ.

MA: Was it mostly Japanese people who went to the church?

SE: Oh, yeah, uh-huh. See, I don't know how he found the different Japanese people in Chicago, but he would visit them and talk to them about the Bible and things. So that was his life work.

MA: And then did, so they then sold the hotel business in Seattle, sold the U.S. Hotel, and sold the house?

SE: I don't know what they did.

MA: Your house on Beacon Hill?

SE: The house on Beacon Hill, he, they rented it out, and, because I remember they went back and they stayed there for quite a while. I forget when it was, they went back to Seattle, Mother and Dad, and, because I had a brother out at Firland yet. And so Dad and Mother stayed at the house on Beacon Hill. Yeah, and I went to visit them when they were there. In fact, the one year when they went to Japan, they went from that house.

MA: So they, they kept it, then, for a while?

SE: Uh-huh.

<Begin Segment 21>

MA: How did you meet your husband, Eddie?

SE: How did I meet him? A gentleman that was, was a janitor at the hotel where Dad, where our folks were staying, told him he'll bring Ed to meet a couple of girls, and brought him over to Dad's place where Miyo and I were. And he said, he said all we did was giggle, giggle. [Laughs] He said it was embarrassing for him, he said, "I won't see that girl again." [Laughs]

MA: So how did you connect again?

SE: I can't remember now, but I don't know, we started going roller skating and things. And his friends, and I knew his friends, too. And then the other girls that did housework, we went together, and then we used to go bowling, and my brother and I and my sister, we would go bowling a lot. So then Ed would come down and join us, bowling.

MA: And what year did you get married?

SE: '44.

MA: 1944, so the war was still going on.

SE: Oh, yeah, uh-huh.

MA: Did, around that time, during the war years, was housework a common job for, for the Nisei girls to do?

SE: Oh, yes, because we didn't know where, main thing was we needed a safe place to stay. And then with the housework, why, you knew that you had a home that you could go to.

MA: So you would actually live in the, in their home?

SE: Uh-huh. And then you'd get Thursdays, Sundays and Thursdays, afternoon off.

MA: And these were mostly for Caucasian families?

SE: Uh-huh, Caucasians.

MA: Was it a pretty well-paying job at that time, did you get...

SE: Oh, no. But then it was, oh, very, something like nine dollars a week, but you'd earn room and board, and the main thing you wanted was room and board. And it varied from there on.

MA: And you said you did housework up until you met your husband, right? And then you got married.

SE: And then I continued to do housework. Through the same agency I was able to get day work, day work, and so we'd go out and I'd, for fifty cents an hour or something, we'd work for eight hours.

MA: And what, what was your husband's job at that time when you were, when you got married?

SE: He was farming with, with Sam.

MA: Sam Ogo?

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: Did he continue that for a long time?

SE: Oh, yes, uh-huh. And then eventually, well, they farmed right next to each other, so Ed took over part of his land, the same land that they were leasing and farmed. And then Ed's mother and father helped at the farm, and they were helping Sam Ogo, too.

MA: Did you also work on the farm?

SE: No, never worked out in the garden. So I did housework, day work.

MA: And so you got married in '44, and when did you decide you were gonna live in Spokane permanently? I mean, did you ever consider moving back to Seattle or going to Chicago?

SE: Oh, no, uh-uh. No, I never thought of making any moves. Well, you know, the children came. [Laughs] And then we got active in the community.

MA: Oh, how did, how did you become active? What sorts of things did you do?

SE: Well, I worked with the ladies in this area. I don't know when they had census, but we used to do census work and things like that. And then, then the women in this community have what they call a "Happy Hour Club" where the mother, mothers, they couldn't leave home with the kids, and so at first they used to get together, was it once, once a month, play cards, and fix lunch for each other. And so they had it at different homes. So it got to a point where instead of doing lunches, we'd go and play at, at restaurants, play cards there. Like at the Holiday Inn, we had a room that we went every month, and they reserved a place.

MA: These were all Nisei women with, with children?

SE: Yeah, women with children. Well, at first, that's why they did it at the homes. But when all the kids were in school, then they could go to a restaurant.

MA: Is that something that still happens, these get-togethers?

SE: I'm still, I still belong to the, well, there's only, I think there's only three of us left now, but we're still doing... in fact, there was this lady, that neighbor lady that had a greenhouse where the Hampton Inn is now, there was a greenhouse. And this lady for years used to come in and used to invite us, me to go to the, with the women. But I was working and I couldn't go. And so, but the bad part was after she died, I took her place. So the ladies still meet and play cards once a month. And we go to Holiday Inn up there, at the, I think it's called... what do they call it? Something grill. Not "gambler's" but... anyway, a little grill that's at the Holiday Inn up here, and we go up there once a month, we play cards and have lunch with the ladies.

MA: Sounds fun.

<Begin Segment 22>

MA: So you said you had four children.

SE: Uh-huh, four girls.

MA: Four daughters.

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: What are their names?

SE: Phyllis, Patricia, Pamela and Priscilla.

MA: And what, when was your first daughter born, Phyllis?

SE: April 5, 1945, because it's 4-5-45. [Laughs]

MA: Easy to remember?

SE: Easy to remember, uh-huh. And she's the one that lives in Delaware.

MA: And what are your other daughters doing? So Phyllis lives in Delaware.

SE: Patricia, uh-huh, is in Pasco, and she works for the DOE.

MA: The Department of Energy?

SE: Uh-huh. And she used to recruit scientists to work at Hanford, and she would talk to people all over the world. And so it was very interesting work. She, she really enjoys her work.

MA: And then there's Pam, your...

SE: Is living next door and married, and she works, she and her husband both work out at Eastern.

MA: Eastern Washington University?

SE: University, uh-huh.

MA: And then Priscilla is your youngest, right?

SE: Youngest. And she lives in Seattle, in Kirkland, and she's got a new job, and I'm not quite sure what she does now. She just recently started a new job. She was working at a place where they had exercise equipment, and people were, I think, renting. I don't know. They were selling, I guess, exercise equipment. The pay wasn't enough, and so...

<Begin Segment 23>

MA: And are you, you had mentioned that you are active in the Methodist Church, is that right?

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: How have you, I mean, you've seen, you've been a member of the church since the war years, right?

SE: Uh-huh.

MA: How have you seen it change over the years, over the fifty or so years, sixty years that...

SE: Well, it's interesting. The church has more Caucasians now than before, and it's moving away from all Japanese, but still, it's mainly Japanese. But there is really no need, because Japanese language is not spoken, and we have a Caucasian minister. Some, some things we do hang on to, old traditions. But it's nice that it is a, you've seen the church, it's a beautiful building, and it's nice that they do have one place where the Japanese get together. But the Buddhist Church has a Buddhist temple now, and they're doing very well.

MA: What about the Spokane Japanese community? How have you seen the community change in the years that you've lived here, and what sorts of things have you observed?

SE: Well, it's very loose. They don't have too much, people don't do too much together, but they do have what they call Bosankai, when we have that services, and we hold it together, the Buddhists and the Christians, they hold it together. We go to separate churches on Sunday, but most of the community things we do together. So the JACL has graduates banquet and stuff for the high school, college graduates, and they give little scholarship for them and things like that. And try to have some sort of community life, and that's what we're feeling, that if they don't continue to do that, that Japanese community would be lost. But then there's not many young people. There isn't no, hardly any Sanseis.

MA: But you feel like there's still some sort of effort being made to pass on the traditions and...

SE: Yes, they're trying to, but it's getting harder and harder. But we still carry on the, like whenever there's a funeral, it's done the old traditional Japanese way, koden and everything. But it's gotten so, of course, lot of the hakujins do the koden, too. Yeah, they've taken it up.

<Begin Segment 24>

MA: What are some lessons that you have learned from your parents or the Issei generation that you can think of?

SE: That I what?

MA: That you can think of, just some lessons or values that you learned.

SE: Well, like remembering the older generation, trying to keep up the cemetery and keep it up so that they will not be completely forgotten. And I suppose mainly it's because, for our own... down the line and things. It gets more and more difficult when the younger ones, very different nationalities and change. We often talk about it with each other, about how long will it continue to keep up lot of the things. Well, lot of things aren't necessary, and yet lot of things are nice.

MA: Which sorts of traditions do you think are sort of the most important to pass on to future generations?

SE: Remembering the older generation and the values that they had on importance of family and keeping face. [Laughs] I think, like, without realizing it, I guess my, my girls once in a while laugh when they talk about it. They said, "What will my mother say?" [Laughs]

MA: Great. Well, is there anything else you want to say before we...

SE: I don't think so.

MA: ...wrap up?

SE: I can't think of anything. [Sound of thunder] Is that storm?

MA: It's a storm, so... [laughs]

SE: Sounds like it.

MA: Well, thank you so much for, for your interview.

SE: Well, you're welcome. I don't know that I did anything much, but...

MA: Oh, I feel like I learned a lot, so thank you very much.

SE: Well, I hope so. You're welcome.