Densho Digital Archive - Richard H. Yamamoto Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

TI: So today's Thursday, April 27, 2006, we're in the basement of the Northwest Museum of Arts & Culture in Spokane, and we're interviewing Dick Yamamoto. And I'm Tom Ikeda, the interviewer, and on camera we have Dana Hoshide. And so, Dick, I wanted to first thank you for coming down and doing this. I know you're not a morning person, so you had to wake up for this, so I appreciate that. But the first question I have is when you were born, what was the, the name given to you?

RY: My name is Hiromichi Yamamoto, so that was kind of complicated for a kindergarten teacher to call me Hiromichi, so they called me Dick.

TI: Well, so I'm curious, so who, when they said it was complicated, who gave you the name Richard or Dick in kindergarten?

RY: Well, it was given to me by one of the kindergarten teachers, Caucasian. They couldn't pronounce my name, so they asked my folks whether they can add, add Dick, Dick, to my name. Or Richard is the side name to Dick, so I got it legalized as Richard, I guess when I got my citizenship or something, I don't know. [Laughs]

TI: So I'm curious, so when they did that, how did you feel about having, being called Dick or Richard?

RY: Well, I don't recall too much about that. Like my... I guess I spoke nothing but Japanese in kindergarten, and during my kindergarten years, I couldn't speak Japanese -- I mean, English too well, so they held me back for half a year. I couldn't go to first grade, and my age was right there in September, so they held me back for, in those days, it was a half a year, held me back 'til January. They said I couldn't speak English. So there I was, I was in, I was a half-year behind some of my classmates with my same age group. And as for Richard, I just, just figured that Dick is -- I mean, Richard is Dick, so I legalized it. I guess it was just before the war I legalized it in the city hall.

TI: Although people would still call you Dick, you just wanted to make it legal in terms of your, your papers.

RY: Uh-huh.

TI: Okay, so where and when were you born?

RY: I was born at Spokane, at the, at the hotel. I think, my understanding is I was born at the hotel, at 417 1/2 Trent Alley, where it used to be the Japanese district.

TI: So you were delivered by a midwife?

RY: Well, I guess it was a midwife. They said... you know, I'm not too clear about this. They said I was stillborn, but they got me out of it somehow, I don't know.

TI: Oh, that's unusual. So you were delivered at the hotel, and they said you were stillborn.

RY: Yeah.

TI: And somehow they revived you?

RY: It's a mystery to me.

TI: And then, and the date of your birth was...

RY: September 4, 1922.

TI: So 1922, that makes you about eighty-three, eighty-four years old today?

RY: Eighty-four, eighty-three? [Laughs]

TI: September... eighty-three. So you'd be eighty-three right now.

RY: Yeah.

TI: Okay.

<Begin Segment 2>

TI: Did you have any brothers and sisters?

RY: Yes, I had one sister, and I had three, three brothers, I guess. One of my brothers was younger than I was, he passed away when he was, I don't know, four or five years. He was, he wasn't younger than I, I guess he was... well, he was younger than I was. He passed away when he was four or five years old, I guess, I don't, I don't recall.

TI: Okay, so for my benefit, can you, can you kind of like name or give me the names of your brothers and sisters in the order of their birth?

RY: Okay. Tomoko is my oldest sister, Floyd Yamamoto, and Ed Yamamoto, and me, my, and... oh, my baby brother's name... I forgot.

TI: So he was the one who, who died when he was four or five?

RY: Yeah.

TI: And, and Tomoko, what was the age difference between Tomoko and Floyd? How much difference in age, do you remember?

RY: Oh, there was quite a bit of difference. Well, I don't, she... she was sent to Japan when she was young, and you know, like in those days, they sent, the parents of the Issei group usually sent somebody back to Japan for education. And she was, she came back a little before the war, and she married Henry Yamamoto of Coeur d'Alene, and he was a chicken, chicken, he was a chicken rancher, a fox farmer. He was quite a, quite a... fox farmer, he's a mink rancher, he did quite a few things. And my sister passed away in 19-, what was that? '41? And at childbirth, and as, as the papers said, she died because of the war. I believe she died in, Tuesday or Monday after the, you know, World War II started.

TI: Oh, so let me make sure I understand this. So, so before the war broke out, she was, while she was young, a young girl, she was sent to Japan to study, and then she came back before the war started, married Henry...

RY: Henry, yes.

TI: ...and then she was pregnant and delivered...

RY: Well, she had, she had another child before that, but then she had this one that, in '41, she was pregnant then and...

TI: And just died days after...

RY: After the war.

TI: During childbirth?

RY: Well, yes, that's, that's the understanding. And so I don't know, but my mother was saying that the nurse told her a little too soon that the baby died, and then complications came in. And I don't know exactly how she died, but they said she died of, you know, in the papers, they said she died because of remorse of the war or something like that. And my brother Ed, he's a, he's quite the, I don't know, journalistic-minded people, person, that he tried to get the Spokesman Review to rebut saying that she died because of the war. But that was passed over, never got...

TI: I'm sorry. So Ed, Ed wanted the Spokesman Review to change that from saying that she died from remorse of the war, to just died giving birth.

RY: Well, she must have died because of... yeah.

TI: Now, do you... has, what did the family think would happen? I mean, is this something that -- of course, it was a tragedy, but was there any concern that, that something happened that was unusual?

RY: Not, not that I remember. There wasn't anything else. Like my brother pointed out, the Spokesman Review wrote that notice in the paper following her death. Other than that, there was nothing, nothing concerned about how she passed away.

TI: Okay. So that was your, your oldest sister, Tomoko, so she was quite a bit older, do you recall how much older she was than, than Floyd? How much older...

RY: Oh, maybe two years, two or three years.

TI: Okay. And then Floyd and then, between Floyd and Ed, how many, how long, how much older?

RY: About two years, two or three years between the two.

TI: And then between Ed and you, how, same thing?

RY: About three years.

TI: Three years.

<Begin Segment 3>

TI: And then, okay, your father, what was his name?

RY: It was Shioji. They called him Tom over here, when he was working, they called him Tom Yamamoto.

TI: Now, do you know why he got the name Tom?

RY: Yeah, well, I guess that's what those Caucasians wanted to call him, so I mean, he, they called him Tom, Tom Yamamoto, Tom.

TI: And do you know where in Japan he was born, where he came from?

RY: I don't really know. I don't remember. They told me, they told me exactly where it was, but I was... oh, where was that Olympics held?

TI: Nagano?

RY: Huh? Nagano, yeah. I think, yeah, he was born in Nagano, Nagano-ken.

TI: Okay. And do you know why your father came to the United States?

RY: Well, I guess like all the Isseis, they figured to come over here and make a little money and go back. But he stayed. He had two of his brothers come over, but they taught, they didn't get a good job and they taught Japanese in our church, church Japanese school that we had. But they, they left way before the war.

TI: So they, I'm sorry, so these were your uncles?

RY: My uncles. I had two uncles.

TI: And they were, like, Japanese language teachers?

RY: Yeah. And one of 'em went back to Japan, he was, he became a principal at one of the schools over there, I don't know...

TI: So it sounds like your father and his brothers were, were pretty well-educated.

RY: I don't know about my father. [Laughs] But yeah, those two were very well-educated. And my, my dad, I guess, he was one of those easy-going boys. 'Cause he, he learned how to play go, he learned how to do a little bit of massaging, and well, you might say he was easy-going fellow. He didn't, I don't think he was much of an education, educated person. But my, I don't know, my mother --

TI: Before you go to your mother, how did your father get to Spokane?

RY: How did he get to Spokane?

TI: Yeah. Why Spokane and not some other place?

RY: That I'd never know. I've never got the good story on how he got here, nor how my mother got here. I haven't got, I never, never got a good... well, they never told me. They probably told my brother, my older brother about how, how things happened, but I never was... well, I never was told exactly how they got here.

<Begin Segment 4>

TI: Okay, so let's just talk about them. What was your father like?

RY: Oh, my father was, well, he was easy-going person, but he worked, he worked at the, at the Milwaukee Station or the Union Station, railroad station, and he was a redcap there. And he worked there for, well, worked there even during the war. When the war started, they laid them, they laid the redcaps off, Japanese redcaps off and then the people, persons that took over the redcaps, they couldn't quite keep it up or do something, anyway, but they hired them back. And I remember that they, Union Station hired quite a few colored, colored personnels. 'Cause I used to go, go back there, and work, take my dad's place when he was feeling, when he wasn't feeling too good. So I was pretty young, but I did some redcapping there.

TI: So let me make sure I understand this. So if your dad was sick, he would have you take his place, rather than just getting another redcap to take his place?

RY: Yeah.

TI: Now, why would, why would they do it that way? Why wouldn't they just find another redcap to, to kind of substitute for your dad?

RY: Well, before that, my older brother helped. I don't know why they didn't hire anybody else, but I guess...

TI: Well, maybe it was because of the way they paid or something, that it...

RY: Yeah, could be, I don't know.

TI: ...wanted to keep it in the family, the money.

RY: Well, it just so happened that like when my brother was able to, he helped do the redcapping there, and that was good spending money for all of us as far as that goes.

TI: Well, while we're talking about redcapping, can you tell me, describe what a redcap does.

RY: Well, in those days, it was, it was where they meet passengers when they come out of the taxi, and they show them where to go. And if they wanted, if they wanted their baggage carried, they carried the baggages to their, their designated trains. And they, each, each person, each redcap took care of, you know, passengers if they wanted help.

TI: And by helping, would they, would they then live off the tips, or would they actually get a salary?

RY: Oh, yeah. They got, they got tips which helped, because the salary wasn't too much. And, well, tips, I guess they still give tips, and it was pretty nice, tips were pretty nice sometimes, sometimes. As I remember, when I used to get tips, one dollar was quite a bit. And fifty cents, one dollar, it helped, especially when I didn't get, get the wages that my dad got. Those tips were good for me to spend that while I was in school.

TI: So I'm curious, are there, were there certain tricks or things that you would do to get better tips?

RY: Oh, no, no. No, there isn't, there was no, I don't think there was. I didn't... [laughs]. Well, if there was too much baggages, we asked another, another redcap to come and help. But other than being, having certain tricks to, to get better tips, no, I don't think there was. Like we worked, we didn't, I don't think, at least I don't, I don't remember the other redcaps saying, "Oh, that, that one's a good tipper." I never got, I never, I never heard that.

TI: Okay, so, so one of the things that a redcap would do is, is they would greet people, and if people needed help with their baggage, they would bring it to the train.

RY: Yeah.

TI: So that's one of the things a redcap will do. What else would a redcap do?

RY: Well, they had to, at that time, they mopped, you know. They don't, the train isn't always there, they took care of the hallways and the stairways and everything. They mopped the hall, and they cleaned the restrooms and took care of, like, hallways and the offices where the, where... for the, I guess it's just part of the job.

TI: So it's sort of like janitorial services at the train station.

RY: Yeah, yeah.

TI: So it sounds like when the, the trains are there, they're busy doing baggage, but when the trains are out, they would then do the janitorial work.

RY: Yeah, that's what it was, yeah.

<Begin Segment 5>

TI: Now at a train station, or the Spokane train station, how many redcaps were there in, like, in a day, how many people would be working?

RY: Oh, gee whiz. Now, there were five or six, I guess. I forgot. If I want to count, count them, I guess...

TI: No, that's, just say it's five, or... approximate. But, and then you mentioned earlier there were, like, Japanese redcaps, and also African American redcaps, too?

RY: No, well, after the war started, there was Caucasians... I mean --

TI: African Americans?

RY: African Americans were hired.

TI: So let's go back, before the war, there were Japanese...

RY: Just strictly Japanese.

TI: Just Japanese? So Japanese were the only ones who were the redcaps?

RY: Yeah, they were the only ones hired there.

TI: Now, how would your father, or, who would choose, who would hire the redcaps? Who would determine who could be a redcap?

RY: Oh, they had the stationmaster there. They chose, and after the people got in there, well, if they needed somebody, they'd, they chose, I mean, they chose them if that person needed a job, they would look them, look 'em up. Other than that, it was, it was the stationmaster that okayed it.

TI: So, so if someone wanted to be a redcap, would they talk to, like, your father or the other redcaps, and just let 'em know that they were interested, so that they would tell the stationmaster when he was looking that...

RY: Yeah, that's the way it worked, I believe, yeah.

TI: So was your dad one of the more senior redcaps?

RY: Well, he was one of 'em, yeah, but there were others, you know, that were senior redcaps. Mr.... well, there was a guy by the, a person by the name of Shiraga, he was ahead of my, working longer than my dad was. And oh, there was a few of 'em that was working before he was, too.

TI: Now, in the Japanese community, was being a redcap a pretty good job to have? Is that one of the better jobs?

RY: Well, no, well, I guess you might consider that a better job, but there was also the job as a mail handlers at the Great Northern. And I don't know how the wages were there, but it was mostly Japanese that was working at the Great, Great Northern mail gang. But the senior hiring person for, was a, was a Caucasian, and they had to get hired through Caucasian personnel. And most of them, naturally the wages weren't so good, so I guess that's why a lot of the Japanese started working there. And it was a good job for, for people that was going to school, too. Like Christmastime, when the mail was heavy, they hired a lot of, lot of high school kids. I worked there for a little bit, too. And there was quite a few Japanese working there.

TI: And so when you worked there sort of temporarily during Christmas, was the pay better than working as a redcap, and were the conditions better?

RY: Well, I don't... I really didn't know exactly how much better or worse, I didn't, 'cause well, I gave my money, my wages to my mother, and I never did find out whether I was getting more money than Dad was. [Laughs] For the two, two or three weeks that we worked. But no, I didn't, it was a job, and I gave my mother the money because other than that money, I wasn't making anything else.

<Begin Segment 6>

TI: So you mentioned giving the money to your mother, let's talk about your mother a little bit. So what was your mother's name?

RY: Matsuko, Matsuko.

TI: And do you know where in Japan, where she came from?

RY: No, I really don't know, Nagano or someplace close by, I guess.

TI: Do you, do you have any idea of how your mother and father met?

RY: No, I haven't. I guess it's, where that, picture bride? In those days, it was mostly picture bride plus if they had relatives over there, they probably told them who, who to try to get. So other than that...

TI: So it sounds like your father was here first in Spokane...

RY: Oh, yes.

TI: ...and then your mother came later and joined him. Okay. And then while your, your dad spent a lot of time being a redcap, what would your mother be doing?

RY: Oh, she was taking care of the hotel that they, they acquired.

TI: And so this is at that --

RY: Renting, renting the hotel.

TI: So this is the 417 Trent Alley?

RY: Yeah, 417 1/2 Trent. [Laughs] That was something that's, well, the regular address is Trent Alley, but that was because... well, the hotel was built from the old Union Station that burnt down, and the bricks were, they used to build a, build that hotel. And I don't know how my folks got into that, but they got into it when it was new, new hotel. And that, in that area, it was mostly Chinese or Japanese living. And I guess they called it Japanese town or Chinese town, I don't know, but there was quite a few Chinese that lived right across the street in the alleyways, too. I guess it was Japanese, Chinese town, I guess.

<Begin Segment 7>

TI: Well, going back to the hotel, you said your parents were able to get into it when it was new. Did they buy it, or did they own it, or what was the relationship they had with the...

RY: Oh, I don't know how they got it, but they rented that new. I don't know how they got into it. But it was, it was a new building, and they got into it somehow. They, they rented it until they tore it down way after the war.

TI: And so how large a hotel was this?

RY: Huh?

TI: How large was the hotel?

RY: I don't even remember how many rooms it had, but...

TI: Well, how many floors did it have?

RY: Well, you consider the floors, the main floor was the first floor and then the second floor and then the third floor. Second and third floor was, was for the hotel, and the main floor, we had three, three businesses like, well, there used to be Chinese restaurant there, there used to be... and a Chinese gambling house, you might call it, Baccape. And, well, that's how it became mostly Orientals. So it was quite a, quite a... I guess from the Caucasian standpoint, it was a pretty dangerous, dangerous alley. But, because I'd walk, I'd be walking down into this Trent Alley there to my house, I mean, to our place, and the guy, the Caucasian says, "Oh, don't go in there, it's pretty dangerous." You know like nowadays, you hear a lot of activities from the gangs and stuff, like in those days, there wasn't anything like that, I don't think. I know there wasn't. But, but there was a lot of, lot of Caucasians that drank, and they, they did, they did sit around there and tell stories. One of the stories that I, I remember is this alcoholic was sittin' there and I was talking to him, and he says, "Don't you get this way." Says, "My dad died with an enlarged heart because of too much drinking." You know, people like that were down there, but it wasn't like nowadays where you got sex offenders and things like that, they talk about. No, it wasn't that bad.

TI: So why did this person think it was dangerous? What kind of things would happen that would give that a reputation of being dangerous?

RY: Well, I guess mainly because it's, it's an alley, and I don't know why. I don't know why the Caucasians thought of it that way, but they knew there was a lot of, lot of men drinking and carousing, carousing, they just sleep it off down there or something. And other than that, there wasn't things like, you know, sex offenders. In those days, it was just Orientals.

<Begin Segment 8>

TI: Okay, so let's go back to the hotel. So on the second and third floor of this building were the rooms for the hotel. So what would your mother do? She had to run this, so what kind of things would she do to run the hotel?

RY: Well, we, they started renting to a lot of loggers that come up. And in the wintertime they'd, they rented to a lot of loggers. And these loggers always came in with bedbugs or lice and things like that. So nothing but, well, insecticide, my mother used to use, spread every day, every night, and every day she'd spread the insecticide to kill the bugs. In fact, when I had to help, help sometimes, she'd tell me how to, how to take care of the bugs. You know, those mattresses had, had edges on it, and he says, "Look under there real close." [Laughs] Yes, but I don't know, that insecticide smelled, but I don't know why the loggers came back all the time, though. Because, you know, once, once those, they get insecticide, the bugs start to stay away. And I don't know why, but it never got into my bed. [Laughs] And the bedbugs or something, lice and stuff, but they bring it back from the logging camps. But that's what my mother took care of, making the sheets and stuff.

But we also had some Orientals living there steady, and we had, I remember two, two Chinese bachelors that used to stay there. And they used to, well, there's one of 'em that was a really good cook, he taught me how to eat some Chinese food, and we got along real well. He was, I guess he was as old as I am now. [Laughs] But we used to, he used to take me into his kitchen and give me some of his food, and he was a real good cook.

TI: And when you say "his kitchen," did the rooms have kitchens?

RY: Yeah. Well, this one, he had a kitchen and a bedroom, and two separate rooms. But yeah, some of the, some of the rooms had kitchens in it. That's like the family, when the Japanese family, they all had, there was two of 'em that had, had kitchens. And one bathroom on each floor; I don't know how they got along that way, but they had only one bathroom on each floor. And I don't know, that's all I had. I mean, I had to go into that public bathroom that we had. But seems how we got in there, and my dad had to keep up the furnace to keep the hot water coming up, and that was another chore. They used to get the split, four-foot long split lumber and use it to put into the furnace. And they, they used to, when they brought the lumber, it was piled in between the Dempsey Hotel and our hotel, and it was sort of a pathway or alleyway going down into the basement. And every so often, well, every winter, as far as that goes, we'd have, I think it was one corridor that they get piled up in between the two houses. And then when we had to place, throw it into the basement one at a time, and then from there, we had, my father would start the fire at night and well, it's not just lumber, and then when we had coal, we had a coal chute that used lumber to start and then put the coals in. I knew how to do it because my brother used to do it before he went to university, then that was my chore after that. [Laughs] So it was, I don't know... seemed like as soon as my brother left, I had more chores to do. [Laughs]

TI: Well, it sounds like there were, yeah, lots of activities.

<Begin Segment 9>

TI: I wanted to go back and, you mentioned there were two Chinese bachelors that lived there, kind of on a steady basis. What kind of work did, did those two men do?

RY: Oh, my understanding is they were, they were working in those Chinese gambling places. The two, one or two, one place was down below, but two or three, two or three Chinese places were across the alley. And those were the, that was the real thing in those days. I mean, it's just like Washington State Lotto, it's about, it's built on the same principle where they have a, have a paper and divide it in two and then put numbers or something on it, and you pick so many numbers, you get so much money. And this, this was just like the Washington State Lotto now. It was a big, big thing for them. And I think, I think most, they either worked in there or in the restaurant, but most of it, most of 'em were working in the, in the lottery, lotto.

TI: And that's sort of the gambling.

RY: Gambling places.

TI: So who would be the customers at the gambling? Who would go into these places?

RY: Well, that, that I couldn't tell you too much, because I don't know, I didn't frequent the -- I didn't even know too much about how, how it ran. But most... from what I understand, there's a lot of Japanese that liked to gamble that way, and Caucasians. And yeah, I guess they made a pretty good money then. But no, I didn't, the gambling place down below my house, but I never did go in there.

TI: So I'm curious, when you were growing up, did your mother and father tell you specifically to stay away from the gambling place, or did it ever come up about, about certain places not to go?

RY: No, they didn't tell me to stay away, but like all the Isseis seemed to, to go to the card games and gambling places, and my mother would say, "Oh, they're going gambling, and they lose their money and stuff." But other than telling me to stay away, no, she didn't tell me to stay away. 'Cause my, my father liked to play, play those little card games that they had in these pool halls. And I don't know, I don't think they made, he made too much money gambling in those places, but you know, it's a pastime. And yeah, I guess a lot of Japanese played that, 'cause after, after I grew up, I found out that a lot of my friends liked to go down in those places. I didn't have, I didn't have what you might say itching to go play, play the games, because I guess it was under, underneath the hotel. I didn't care to go. But it was just like this Washington State Lotto. And, but lot of people won good, and lot of people lost good. [Laughs]

TI: Good. Okay, so earlier you talked about how one of the Chinese bachelors showed you, or cooked Chinese food for you from his kitchen and shared it with you. You know, with the Chinese and Japanese living so close to each other, how were the relationships between Japanese and Chinese?

RY: Well, it was, it was, there was no... there wasn't any, you know, like you would think that they would be between Japanese and Chinese. But no, we had, we were all friendly and well, just like they had a restaurant, there was a Chinese restaurant there that we kind of knew that what they did was, was kill the chickens and ducks. They'd take 'em in the back of, back of their restaurants, and they'd kill 'em right there in front of us. Well, people told us that they, that they'd take their blood and cook 'em in soup, and I didn't think much of it. But then, yeah, no, we got along pretty good. 'Cause, 'cause like I say, I mean, even when, after the war started, that one Chinese was still staying in one place. But after a while, I guess he got a little old, so they put him in the nursing home. But other than that, Chinese, Japanese, that didn't make any difference.

TI: Okay. When you think about your family, between your father and mother, who was the one who sort of was the disciplinarian? So that when you or your brothers or your sister did something wrong or whatever, who was the one who would be the one who would discipline you?

RY: Well, there wasn't too many times that we had to be disciplined. So I guess my mother was sort of a... watchdog. I don't know. We never, like I say, I mean, I never went to gambling places, I didn't, I didn't care for it. And as for playing, playing, we had, we would play in the alleys just east of, east of our place where I had, there was a, there was a bigger yard back there where Chinese had restaurants and Japanese had hotels. And yeah, we... but the thing is, Chinese kids didn't seem to come and play with us down there. I don't think I ever saw any Chinese kids down in that alleyway, 'cause I think they lived out someplace else. And no, there was no... no, we got along.

<Begin Segment 10>

TI: Okay, so when you think about that play area, who would be playing there? Would it all be Japanese American kids?

RY: Well, there's just nothing but Japanese playing around. [Laughs]

TI: No, no, no Caucasians. Well, because of the fact that the only families were Japanese families around that area. There was no Caucasian family around there as far as kids went, and I don't know where the Chinese were living, but they didn't seem to be around there.

TI: Well, so when you played games with the other Japanese, what kind of games would you, would you play?

RY: Oh, what is that? We had a, we had marble shooting, you know, make holes, I think it was like a baseball diamond and make holes, and then that one, and then the one that you have a big circle and shoot each other's out. And then, then we had a real good game, it's like a war game. We had, we had rubber bands made out, made from inner tubes, and then we'd have a stick that resembled a rifle. And each notch, we'd string a, string a, the inner tube that we split up, split it down. And we used to go shoot each other that way. And that was one of the games that was, that was quite a, quite a thing.

TI: So these were just like homemade little wooden rifles with notches that you would get inner tubes and cut them up, and then use them to, to pull them back and shoot at each other.

RY: Yeah, we'd flip it up and then shoot it, and then some guys would get, they'd get pretty smart and put a, put a string or rope down that, and leave it in each notch where the rubber bands are stuck. The, the rope would be laid in there, and then pull it and you get a, just like a machine gun. [Laughs]

TI: Oh, so it's a fast-fire.

RY: Yeah. [Laughs] Yeah, we, we had all kinds of guns. All kinds of rubber band... and yeah, things like that is what we played there. And as we got older and some of 'em started smoking, I don't know. That was a bad habit; I didn't like to do that.

<Begin Segment 11>

TI: How about within the community, perhaps some more organized things like, like Japanese language school? Did you need to go to Japanese language school or church, were there some things in the Japanese community that, that you participated in?

RY: Yeah. We had, we had, we had to go to Japanese language school, or what they called a "tip school," and it was, it was held in our church. And, and we'd have a lot of the, after school, we'd go to tip school.

TI: Now, do you know why they called it "tip school"?

RY: Well, "tip school" is because it's, because I guess you'd get a "tip" on how to, how to speak Japanese and write Japanese. And even now, some of the, some of the Niseis, very few of 'em know how to do that, write, write and read, people in Spokane. 'Cause like in Seattle, for instance, their Japanese was perfect. I mean, they could speak Japanese even when they're like me, my age group. They spoke Japanese and probably wrote better than I did. But when we were growing up over here, we spoke nothing but English. But you go to Seattle, and they, all the Niseis were speaking Japanese, and I said, well, that's all right, too.

TI: So what, I don't understand what the difference is. Because in Seattle, they also had "tip school," too.

RY: Oh, yes.

TI: And then you had it in Spokane, so why would it be different between Seattle and Spokane?

RY: I don't know. It's, I guess in Seattle, the way I would take it is that more, more people from Japan was coming over and staying in Seattle. That's the way I took it, that therefore they spoke more Japanese and, with each other. But we, over here, you could just about tell the difference between the Spokane Niseis and the Niseis, Seattle Niseis. Certain, certain, well, I don't know, they spoke a little different. [Laughs]

TI: So how frequently would you have to go to Japanese language school?

RY: We had it every, every day, right after school. And we'd go for one hour after school. So in those days we went to tip school one hour every day, so, so after school activity was very limited. And when I got into high school, my mother said, says, "You only can do one sport," so I'd like to do football. I'd like to play football, whether I was good or bad, I liked it. So that was my time to skip tip school, is football season. And the rest of the time we went to school every, after school hours, we went to tip school.

TI: Now, was going to tip school something that you looked forward to, or the other, other Japanese looked forward to because you could see your friends? Or how did you, how did you think about tip school?

RY: Well, I guess that would be it, too, but I guess, I don't know. I guess the thing is, most of the people that went to tip school were around the neighborhood, so we saw each other as far as that goes. And there was no big things about getting together again, but some of 'em really learned how to speak Japanese and write Japanese, but I don't know, I didn't.

<Begin Segment 12>

TI: Okay, so, so Dick, we're now into the second hour, and you had just finished talking about how one of the ways you'd get out of Japanese language school is you got to do one sport a year, and that was football. And so let's, let's talk a little bit about, about your school life. So you're playing football for your school team? Which, which high school did you go to?

RY: I went to Lewis & Clark, that's, Lewis & Clark was mostly Japanese in there, too, but that was the closest. And I went to Lewis & Clark for four years and played...

TI: Besides, besides football, what other activities did you like doing at Lewis & Clark?

RY: Well, like I said, my mother told me only one sport for after school sports, so I just chose football. Excuse me, I tried baseball, but, when baseball season came around, I had a mitt that somebody gave me when I was small, and I went out and tried it, but my eyes weren't that good, so I, when I went, I was out in the field and somebody hit, hit a fly ball right to me, and the way I caught was caught it in my arms. So I said, "Oh, baseball is not for me." [Laughs] So no, that's, that's all I played, is I tried to play football. And I enjoyed it whether I made a letter or not. In those days, you had to make, you had to be, play varsity at least three or four quarters in the varsity. But I guess I was never too good, I was too good for the second team and I was not too good on the first team. But I enjoyed myself playing football with the other students, too.

TI: So what, what position did you play in football?

RY: Oh, I played guard, 'cause I couldn't see the, I guess, I guess that's the reason why I couldn't play backfield, because I couldn't coordinate myself with the football. So yeah, I played right guard. I was having fun.

TI: And do you remember like in, in school, what subjects you liked the most?

RY: Oh, I didn't have any special subjects. I liked math, in a way I liked math, 'cause I was doing better in math. But then during my senior year, I was going to take trigonometry, and that senior year, they were gonna move the machine shop to the trade school and I wanted to take machine shop, so I took, I took machine shop instead of, it had to be in the afternoon at the trade school. So when trigonometry went down the drain, I was, I thought I was pretty smart because we had two or three, I had, I had three Japanese students in there. And I was kind of outsmarting them, I thought, but I says, "Well, I've got to take trade school." [Laughs] So I went to trade school and took machine shop. So, but no, I wasn't very good at English, so that's one thing that at the university, well, college, I guess, Whitworth College in those days, I took pre-med. A very interesting course, but I wasn't, I wasn't built for college. But...

<Begin Segment 13>

TI: Okay, so let's, yeah, what I wanted to, to talk about next is about the time you started high school, there was another sport that you got involved in, not at school, but judo.

RY: Oh, yeah.

TI: So why don't you talk a little bit about that, and how you got involved in judo?

RY: Well, judo started when, I guess it was when I was sixteen, around sixteen. 'Cause this Mr., Sensei Horiuchi came from, from Seattle, and he was a very well-known... well, not known to me at that time, but he was, he was a very apt judo instructor. So one of the Isseis, well, couple of the Issei said, "Let's get up a judo school." So, so he encouraged this, this fellow to open up a judo school, and well, just so happened that we had a open warehouse or storage, storage room downstairs open, so we, my folks said we could have a, have the judo school downstairs. So, so that, that kept me going to judo, 'cause it was right downstairs. At those times we had, we were practicing three nights a week, and after, that's after super, naturally, and we... so since then, I was sixteen years old, I was sixteen, and we got... well, there's quite a few students then. And I don't know, I guess I was one of the, one of the good judoists, or anyway, one of the good judoists that would like to do judo. I wasn't very perfect, but then I was, I enjoyed it because I can throw some people some of the time. [Laughs] But yes, that's what got me started, Mr. Horiuchi teaching us judo.

TI: And so would you travel to different parts of the state to do tournaments and compete against other people?

RY: Yes, at that time, there was, there was a school in Seattle and Portland, and Ontario, Oregon. So that was the three schools that we competed at, and oh, we did pretty good as far as the students went, competing in all three places. We, we traveled in cars that the Isseis, if they had time, they took us to Seattle, Portland, and Ontario. And, and... most of the students -- not most of the students, lot of the students liked to travel. And, like, it was, it was, usually it was about six or seven or even ten, ten students that were going to these tournaments.

TI: And so the, the people who did judo downstairs in your, your folks' place, where did they come from? Were they all just pretty much from the neighborhood, or did they come from different parts of Spokane?

RY: Well, all the Japanese, all the Japanese around there came, I mean, they didn't necessarily live around there, but quite a few of 'em were living outside, you know, on the farms and stuff. Yeah, they came in, 'cause, well, that was the only judo place there was at that time. And we had quite a few, quite a bit of followings then, 'cause, 'cause all the Isseis encouraged their kids to come. But they, naturally they didn't all come, but we had quite a few.

TI: And so how long did the judo program go on? It started when you were about sixteen.

RY: Oh, yes, we, we did judo underneath there until, actually, 1941, because after '41, a lot of the persons were saying, well, they don't, they don't want the judo taught, Japanese sport taught. So we decided to disband.

TI: And this was right after the war started?

RY: After the war started.

TI: Okay, so we'll, we'll get to that.

<Begin Segment 14>

TI: Before we get to the, the war starting, after you graduated from high school, what did you do? 'Cause this was still before the war, you graduated from high school, so what, what were you doing?

RY: Oh, I wasn't doing too much. In '41, I remembered, well, I was in the Scouts when I was twelve years old, I was in the Boy Scouts. So, so in '41, I was still in the Scouts. And our, our troop was sponsored by the American Legion Post number 9, and I was the old, old standby in the Boy Scouts in our troop. So they had a, the American Legion started their Boys State, which is for political-minded personnels, I guess, even, they even still have a Boys State, but this is in 1941. And this was the first one. And they, they said for me to go because I don't know, I wasn't politically inclined or anything, but because I was the oldest scout in our troop, they decided to send me. I found out that that's, that's what the, you know, that's what the people were going into the Boys State, is because they were mostly political, politically-minded.

TI: So how would the Boys State be, because there probably weren't that many Japanese at Boys State?

RY: No, there wasn't, just me; I was the first one in the Boys State. And naturally, I mean, they treated me pretty good. In 1941 there was no, nothing there, but at the Boys State, I couldn't, I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't... like I say, I wasn't much of a bookkeeper or anything like that, but whenever there was a office... well, we had, in the Boys State we had different, different counties, and in the different counties, we had different cities, and we had different offices. And in that, how long, I forgot how long we were there, two weeks we were there, we had elections. City office, county office, state office. Each one of those, election time, my group always put me up for something, and you know, it's just political and friendly putting me up. And I ended up as state treasurer, you know, in the state election. But I remember one time I was court, court auditor or, and I told them, "I can't take that position, I can't, I don't take shorthand. And I can't even write, spell too good." He said, "Oh, we'll put you up anyway." So that was the day that I remember, when we had a court session, and I was supposed to take notes for everybody's, what they were saying. And the guys would come up to me and say, "Just speak in Japanese" -- [laughs] -- "and let it go at that." Anyway, that's how I got... and I had fun at the Boys State.

Like I say, there was no other Orientals, there wasn't anybody, but some of the boys, one of the boys, we started writing letters right after we, one of 'em wrote me a Christmas, Christmas card, and then one, one Christmas card, it was way before Christmas, and then the next one was just before Pearl Harbor. And... I still remember that Christmas card I got. I saved it, I don't know why I saved it because, but, you know, it was sent to me from Hawaii in December 5th or 6th and postmarked in Spokane December 8th, no, 11th or something. And I kept it, but I never did hear from him. He wrote to me at that time and says, "You wanted a pen pal from, from Hawaii, so I'll get you one." After that, I never did hear from him, I never heard from him since, since the war.

TI: So this was a, a boy that you had met at, at Boys State.

RY: At Boys State.

TI: And he was in Hawaii, he sent you a, an early Christmas card, just the day before the bombing at Pearl Harbor, and after that, you just never heard from him.

RY: I never heard from him.

TI: And so it's kind of interesting to me, because this is in 1941 right before the war started, you were well-accepted by these other, primarily Caucasian boys.

RY: Oh, yeah.

TI: And in fact were, were somewhat popular in terms of getting into state office.

RY: Oh, yeah, and not only that, during the war, one of my friends from the Boy Scout, days was in the Marine uniform, and I was, I was downtown and walking around, and I didn't notice him, and he yelled at me and, in his uniform, he yelled at me and said, "Hi, Dick." I said, I looked up, and here he was in a Marine uniform. And I was really surprised to see him, especially when the war was still on. And we talked a little bit on the street, and that's, that's another person that I, I never heard from after I saw him.

TI: But when you saw him, he was, he was friendly? He said, "Hi..."

RY: Oh, yeah.

TI: And how did you feel when you saw him in uniform? What were you thinking?

RY: Well, well, I don't know, I felt pretty good. 'Cause here he was in his uniform, and here I was still, still a non-, I'm not in a uniform or anything, and here he stopped me in the middle of the street, sidewalk and talked to me. I felt kind of good, because he was an old friend in high school, he was an old friend in high school, and he was an old friend in the Boy Scouts. So yeah, it made me feel real good, especially, especially when the war was still going on.

TI: Well, and in a similar way, were there old friends from high school or Boy Scouts who during or after the war, weren't, weren't as friendly? And so it was, so you would half expect that also?

RY: No, like I'm not a, very much of a outgoing person, so I, I didn't get in touch with any of the students that I went to school with. In fact, a couple of the students that went to Boys State became quite a, quite a state, was in quite a state government. I forgot his name now, but no, I never did get in touch with any of the old students like lot of my friends, they said, "Oh, I'd see these guys and that guy," and I don't know. I just, I'm not that outgoing, I guess.

<Begin Segment 15>

TI: Well, let's go to the outbreak of war. So Sunday, December 7, 1941, where were you when you heard about the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

RY: Oh, I was, I was at a truck farm, and, where their, his family was, was gone in California, and he didn't have any... well, he didn't have anybody really working for him, so he hired me before the -- naturally, before the war.

TI: And so who, who was this? Who hired you?

RY: Mr. Hayashi. His, his daughter was, is married to the former police, police chief... what's his name now? The former, former police, Spokane police chief. Anyway, when, when the war broke out, I was working there, and we had, there was another Caucasian working with us. And that day, December 7th, I didn't feel good that they started the war, but this Caucasian, he liked to talk a lot, and he kept on talking and talking. I don't know why, but I didn't blow up on him, but I decided, hey, I'm quitting. So I quit that day, and then I went back to work a couple days later.

TI: Go back to when you said this Caucasian was "talking and talking." What was he saying? What kind of things was he saying?

RY: Well, I don't, I don't really remember what the heck he was talking about, but he was talking about the war, he was talking about, "You shouldn't have done this, and you shouldn't have done that," and you know, usually what they all talk about. I had just, it just got, got into my... I just didn't feel good either because Japan was having war with U.S. And...

TI: Well, was this other worker sort of making it hard on you? Was he kind of, sort of accusing you or doing anything like that?

RY: No, oh, no. Nothing like that. But, you know, I didn't feel good, I just didn't feel good that Japanese started war. Not that I was... what you'd call patriotic for either side, as far as that goes, and I just didn't feel good. So I don't know why, but I just blew up inside me and I just quit for that day, went home. And I says, well, then I came back after a couple days, and he was still working there. And then, and then maybe a, maybe a week later, his family was relocating back up to Spokane, so that's when I naturally left that, that was, I mean, I left that truck farm.

TI: I'm sorry, who was relocating back to Spokane? Mr. Hayashi's family?

RY: His family. His daughters, he had, he had three or four daughters, and he had one son, but his son wasn't, wasn't a farmer. [Laughs] He didn't like it, so I guess he, he was kind of left out or something, I don't know. But no, the rest of the daughters were all down in California, and then they, the war broke out, and in order to relocate someplace else, they decided to come back to Spokane. So yeah, I kind of kid them about, "You made me lose my job." [Laughs] Yeah, we laugh about that, but yeah, he's a... right after that war, I stayed there for about a week, and that was it. And then, then after that, I didn't do much.

<Begin Segment 16>

TI: Let's go back, so after the war -- you mentioned this earlier -- your dad was a redcap at the train station.

RY: Yeah.

TI: So the, the war breaks out, and you mentioned earlier that they fired all the Japanese redcaps?

RY: Yeah, they fired all the Japanese redcaps, so they got all the co-, I mean, African Americans worked there. 'Cause it was, I guess it was one of the cheaper labors that they can take. So they worked there for quite a while until I guess they couldn't, they couldn't handle whatever they were supposed to do too well. And the funny part of it is when I went back to help my dad when he was sick one time, that was about a month or two later, the African Americans are still working there. Those other redcaps went back to work, and I went there to help my dad out, I mean, take his place. And those other redcaps would say, "See how they, they took care of the marble?" It was, had to be mopped, and, "See how black it's gettin'?" They said, "Those guys didn't do it right, so now it's, now it's pretty hard to get it back." [Laughs] And they were, those Japanese, they were telling me about that, but other than that, went back to work.

Although I remember one time when there was one of these Issei redcaps was taking care of a, of a passenger, and I don't know what happened, but my dad was, said this guy was either teasing, teasing him or giving him a bad time, and he says he went up to him and tried to cool him down, and that Caucasian wouldn't cool down, so he said he gave him a footsweep.

TI: So your, this was your father?

RY: My father. My father gave him a footsweep.

TI: So was your father doing judo?

RY: No, he doesn't know judo.

TI: So how did he know how to do a footsweep, with a large, larger man, right?

RY: Yeah, well, watching me do judo, I guess. We never, I never, we never... he always used to come down and watch us do judo, and I think that's, that's where he did the footsweep, and that guy didn't, got up and didn't, didn't bother him anymore. [Laughs] But that's what he told me one time, he says, "Yeah, after that, he didn't bother us anymore."

TI: That's a good story.

<Begin Segment 17>

TI: So during this period, so the war had started, the redcaps lost their jobs but they were brought back on, this incident with your father, were there other things happening in Spokane that you could remember that, that made it harder for the Japanese community during this period? Like were they restricted from doing certain things?

RY: Oh, yeah, we were restricted from going, going to certain buildings like that, we had to stay away from the telephone building, we were supposed to stay away from the railroad, we're supposed to stay away from the railroad station, railroad.

TI: Wait, wait. So you were supposed to stay away from the railroad station, but your father was a redcap. So how did that work? [Laughs]

RY: [Laughs] They had to let that go, so they can go back to work. We weren't supposed to go to the, you know, Great Northern mail department either, but that one went haywire because all the mail started going where they weren't supposed to go, and so they called them back. And so that, they were called back after, after the redcaps were called back to work. But they said the mail was going from here to there, and they weren't getting, getting to places where they were supposed to go. And we weren't supposed to go by the, you know, by the telephone building, we weren't supposed to go close to the courthouse or anything like that. But like, like I, it didn't bother me because I was working at the farm most of the time, and I didn't think much of it. One time I did think something of it was... which I shouldn't have even spoke up at that time, and it was when we, we were Japanese, group of us were at the bowling alley where we'd go, where we were going bowling. Every year, every year we were going bowling there, and this time I thought to myself, I thought, hey, we were supposed to be going up there, so I don't know why, but I'm not, I'm not the type that goes up to argue anybody, that, "Hey, it's our turn." And, and the guy says, "No, these guys were ahead of you." I says, "Oh, okay." That was the only time I ever blew up.

TI: So you thought that someone was sort of cutting in line in front of you --

RY: Yeah.

TI: -- and so you spoke up, but you were mistaken, that they weren't really cutting in line. But you were just sensitive to people, perhaps taking, taking advantage...

RY: Yeah, I was getting, I was pretty touchy at that time, but I shouldn't have been. But you know, that's the funny part of me, I don't, I don't usually get up to do that kind of stuff. But that, that day, I don't know, something must have got me. I saw these other, other parties going up before we were going up. Other than that, I never had any, any problems, you might say, problems. I never noticed anymore after that, I never noticed anybody kind of... because most of the time I was at, I was at the farms, working on the farms.

<Begin Segment 18>

TI: Yeah, so I wanted to ask you, although you worked on the farms, when you would come back to Spokane -- during this period, quite a few Japanese sort of voluntarily relocated to Spokane because it was out of the exclusion zone. So there were more Japanese and Japanese Americans coming to Spokane.

RY: Yeah.

TI: When you would come back to Spokane, how would, how would Spokane, sort of that downtown area, how would that be changing?

RY: Well, I don't know... I didn't feel any change, 'cause I don't know, I didn't, I wasn't... I didn't, I didn't think there was any. I don't know, church, I go to church, there wasn't anything there that made, made me feel different. Judo, we didn't have judo at that time until real late, in '34 or... so I didn't, I wasn't getting close to any Japanese families. But in... but my mother noticed that, well, I wasn't doing anything, and my brother, oldest brother, aeronautical engineer wasn't doing anything, so he got, my brother Ed, he's what do you call them, quadriplegic, he had to be... well, he, he couldn't walk too well at that time. And so she started us out on this apartment house, which was a fairly nice apartment house.

TI: So your mother got the three brothers sort of started in the apartment management business?

RY: Yeah. So, well, then my brother, my brother Ed, he got himself wrapped up in his bookkeeping. He was, he went to Spokane Business College to take up bookkeeping, and my brother Floyd, he was, he was an aeronautical engineer, so one of his friends, architect friends, hired him as a, I guess, I don't know, what do they do? Drawing?

TI: Sort of a draftsman?

RY: Yeah, draftsman, that's it. And so after that, well...

TI: So where did Floyd graduate from to get his aeronautical engineering degree?

RY: Oh, he graduated from the University of Washington, and what year, I forgot what year, but then, but he tells me that there was other, other students that were not as, you might say, bright as him, were getting hired from Boeing, and he wouldn't get hired. So he decided to go to Japan, that was before the war. And he went to Japan and within a year, he got a job, right away. And he was telling me that as long as there are university students, graduate from a university, you are the, what do you call them, the masters or sensei. And they always bowed to him, you know, while he was working there.

TI: So it's interesting, so when he graduated with his aeronautical engineering degree, he couldn't get a job in Boeing, and when he went to Japan, he got a job quickly, and they, they really sort of looked up to him because of his, his education. So in one place he was shunned, and another place he was, he was accepted.

RY: Right. And then just before the war, January or February, the company that he was working for told him to go back to the United States and get more educated on, you know, aeronautical engineering, go to the different factories and learn a little bit more. So that was, I guess it was... it was, it was a little before Pearl Harbor, and they sent him back, he went, he went to work at California, one of those factories down there.

TI: So I'm curious, when he was in Japan and they sent him back, I'm curious, did he have any inking that, that there might be war between Japan and the United States?

RY: No, he didn't have any inkling. But after it started, you would think that they had something, but he didn't have any idea, or they didn't talk about it over there, I guess. He was just, he was just another employee over there. But he, they, they were kind of impressed with his, his working knowledge of what he had, and he's improved a couple of things, I guess. I don't know, he told me some, couple of little things that he improved at the, at the factory, and they kind of liked him. So I guess that's, that's why they told him to come back and learn a little more.

<Begin Segment 19>

TI: So I want to sort of go back to the story. So your mom helped you guys get started with this apartment business, and it was your older brother Floyd who was an aeronautical engineer, couldn't really get a job, and then you had Ed, who was a quadriplegic, so he was sort of disabled in that way, and then you. And then Floyd got another job helping his architectural, architect friend. And so now it was just you and Ed now running the, the apartment?

RY: Yeah.

TI: So, so let's pick up the story. And then what happened?

RY: Well, then my brother Ed, well, I mean, he... he got, he did, he wasn't doing too bad as an accountant, I guess he had a couple, three of 'em, accounts, and I didn't have nothing, so I, at the apartment I decided, gee whiz, I don't know how to really run an apartment or fix anything, so I decided to go to trade school. So trade school at that time was right across the street from where I lived, and, well, the freeway's there now, but I was right across the street from the trade school, so I went over there and find out what kind of trade that I can take up. And they told me that plumbing, you'd have to go to school for three years to learn to be a plumber. And to become an electrician, you'd have to be two years. And then that was, they were both union, union-sponsored, and so I decided to be, try electrician. So I went to trade school for a couple years. I wanted to get, I wanted to get a job right away after the second year at trade school, 'cause second year of trade school, the instructor wasn't much of a, much of a teacher as an electrician. So, but at that time, construction work wasn't going so good, so I didn't get a job until about... well, I didn't get a job until about -- not as an electrician. I went to work as a motor, motor shop. And the electrical union wasn't hiring anybody, so it wasn't just me and another Caucasian, two other Caucasians weren't being hired at that time. So, so I went to work as a motor winder, and then I got a job at the union as an electrician. And after that, I was going from one union job to another union job.

TI: And how many years did you do that as an electrician with the union?

RY: Oh, let's see. I was working for the, for the union for twenty-three years. That was just enough time to get indentured into the union, union... what do you call it?

TI: Pension plan?

RY: Pension plan, yeah. And then the city, city had an opening for inspector, city inspector. So I asked my wife, I says, you know, I could lay off for three, three months as a union, union electrician, and still make enough money to compensate for working at the city hall. And at that time, it was pretty low. And my wife says, "Go ahead, get the city hall job, 'cause then you won't have to be worrying about getting laid off." 'Cause union work is always, when it's busy you're, you're working.

TI: So the city hall job would be much more steady.

RY: Yeah, steady.

TI: Stable.

<Begin Segment 20>

TI: So you, you mentioned your wife, and so I wanted to ask, when did you first, how did you meet your wife? First, tell me her name, too. What was her maiden name?

RY: Her name was (Kazue) Nabata, Kazue Nabata. And she, she and her sister and father and mother, I guess they all lived over at the Sunnyside Apartments. And I might be wrong, but anyway, their mother died while they were there, and her father ran a pool hall downtown, and she got, she got into beauty shop work, and she was working at, at a beauty shop, and her sister... she's, her oldest sister is now in Japan, and naturally, she's a widow now. And then the other one is down in California, and doing good. [Laughs]

TI: So how did the two of you meet?

RY: Huh?

TI: How did you meet Kaz?

RY: Oh, how did -- you asked me that already. [Laughs] Oh, I don't know, I guess it was through bowling. I guess she was bowling and, and she was a pretty good bowler, and I guess I kind of asked her to go out one time, and didn't go too well, but then after a while we got together again somewhere, I forgot how we got together. But yeah, and... yeah, she, she was, she was working at the -- well, she was a beautician, but then she got a job at the photo, photo finishing company. I remember that because I was taking, I was also a, doing photo work, I mean, part-time when I was, especially when I was taking pictures for the church and stuff, and I wasn't doing too much. That was when I was, had the apartment house, too. So that was, shows something, too. When I, when I would be taking large, large photo, you might say contract or whatever, used to take wedding pictures and church, church assembly pictures, well, I had to have, you know, had to have a dryer. So I talked my wife into -- at that time -- talked her into drying some of my, my prints. So she said, she did that for a couple years. [Laughs]

TI: So this was before you were, you were married, she would just do this.

RY: Yeah, before we were married, yeah.

TI: Well, but eventually you got married, and do you remember what year you got married?

RY: Oh, fifty-three, fifty-four years.

<Begin Segment 21>

TI: And then after you were married, did you have children?

RY: How soon?

TI: Or how many children did you have?

RY: Oh, I got four, two boys and two girls.

TI: Can you tell me their names and the order?

RY: Dale is the oldest, Karen, Clyde, and... [laughs]. God, you give me names like that, things like that so fast, I can't remember. She was just here. [Laughs]

TI: Sorry to put you on the spot like that. [Laughs]

RY: DeAnn. [Laughs]

TI: DeAnn, okay. I know, sometimes this happens when I ask these questions, and people forget at that moment, but it's sometimes the most easy thing for them to remember, and they just can't, they can't pull it out. So you had two boys, two girls, Dale, Karen, Clyde and DeAnn. What, what it like raising four children in Spokane? What was that like?

RY: Oh, I don't know. It wasn't too much for me, my wife did all the work. So like she said, says, "You didn't do anything for the kids," and well, I couldn't play baseball with my boys, 'cause my eyes wouldn't coordinate, and I never played baseball with them. The only thing I did with the boys was judo, naturally. And then my oldest daughter, she took judo for about a year. And then my youngest daughter, my wife took her to dancing schools, and so that's why I didn't have much to do with my kids growing up. Like I say, I would have liked to play ball with them or something like that, but I, my eyes weren't any good.

TI: And currently, where do the four of them live?

RY: Hmm?

TI: Where do they live now, the four, your four children?

RY: Where do they live now? Oh, the oldest one, Dale, he's an actuary, he lives in Chicago. Karen is a veterinarian, she has a shop at Liberty Lake, and my son, Clyde, is, he's got a good job, too, he owns his own job, he does... not actuary, he's a, he's a... that's his work.

TI: Okay, so it looks like a small manufacturing company.

RY: Yeah. Yeah, he worked, he worked for somebody for so many years, and his boss, well, I guess he must have been in good with him from the beginning. He was in, working in Seattle, and he worked with him, and he'd tell me his boss is... well, his boss got three, three businesses, but all three businesses, he told him to come work for him, you know. And then the last business is just the same thing, same company as this, same kind of company as this, so, "You can't, you won't get your, you won't get as much wages as you're getting now, but we'll give you a share in the company." So he went with him to this last company, and he retired, this guy, this guy that, friend of mine retired, and when he retired, my boy says, "I gotta retire, too," 'cause I guess he was getting too much for his share. So anyway, him and his friend started this business about three years ago.

TI: And where does Clyde live now?

RY: Lives at... it's off of the, in Seattle around there...

TI: Okay, Seattle is...

RY: Seattle area, I might as well say.

TI: Okay, and then DeAnn, where does...

RY: DeAnn lives at, in northern Seattle.

TI: So north Seattle. And what does DeAnn do?

RY: Huh?

TI: And what does she do, DeAnn?

RY: DeAnn is a... oh, I know what she does, but... she's a, she runs a battered women's, in Bellevue.

TI: Okay, so a battered women's shelter.

RY: And well, there's Clyde and then DeAnn.

TI: Well, it sounds like all four of your children are doing really well.

RY: Yeah, they're doing better than I am. [Laughs]

TI: That's good.

RY: Better than I ever did.

<Begin Segment 22>

TI: Well, we just have like another minute or so on tape. Is there anything else that you want to mention or talk about for the record, before we finish?

RY: Well, I don't know, there isn't too much that I... except, but, finding out... oh. There, you know like, like they talk about kids going to Japan and getting educated and coming back, they all have a chip on their shoulder against their parents or their brothers and sisters; they all have. Well, my sister was that way. She had a chip on her shoulder, and my -- this always chokes me up -- is my mother told me that her daughter told her that she'd forgive her for sending her to -- and she found out why, sending her to Japan. That always gets me. She found out before she died, my mother found out before she died, told her before she passed away. And, I mean, it's, it's true for all the Kibeis. They were sent back there because the folks thought they were doing them a big favor by getting in, getting them educated a little better. They thought they would be getting a better education in Japan, but like when they come back, they all had a chip on their shoulder just like my, my sister did. Other than that, then I keep talking to people like you, and finding out that my dad did something pretty good, too. But I didn't believe my dad -- not that I didn't believe him -- is that he had a, he got a navy award during World War I, and you had a proof that he did have.

TI: I'm sorry, he got an award from the navy, for doing what? What was the award for?

RY: Well, he was, he had a restaurant at that time, in World War I, and my dad said he did get a commendation for having a nice restaurant for them. But, you know, as I figured, well, he was just talking because he was... well, I didn't blame him. [Laughs]

TI: So this was located in Spokane, the restaurant?

RY: Yeah, he had a restaurant in Spokane, but he never did keep it up, I don't know why.

TI: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I think both your parents worked so hard and did so much. And the same with you and your wife, when you look at your children. Well, so thank you so much for sharing all this information. It just, just blazed through these last two hours. Thank you.