<Begin Segment 7>

[Interruption]

GH: -- nobody could have answered those questions in the first place. And Dad was very cautious to say anything on his own, predicting something. I knew most of the things that -- one of my brothers in the film, A Personal Matter, said that the family suffered some antagonism because of my stand. That may have happened in some respects, but it wasn't a prominent thing that hung on them. They, they felt that if anything, they got support and lifting of pride and so on for my staying behind, in spite of their plea to join the family. They, they understood that. So I felt that that part was, I don't think we could add to that. I'm hoping some, some viewpoint --

TI: Well, before you answer, Alice, why don't you re-ask that question, that second question?

GH: All right.

AI: I was very interested in your role as the mayor of the tank while you were there in the King County Jail. And because you had stressed so much to the other inmates that you wanted to take a nonviolent approach and emphasize negotiations, I was wondering if you had thought you converted any of the inmates to your views, and whether you saw any changes over time in their behavior and approach?

GH: It's difficult to say in that kind of atmosphere. I think we had a few fights, disputes, among inmates that I didn't know how to interfere. One Native Indian, very powerful guy, was ready to beat up somebody. And this guy got ahold of one of the, almost like a sledge hammer, a small hammer-like thing, and was ready to defend himself. Using that, it would have been deadly. And that was enough to stave the thing off, and gave me a chance to step in with some alternate attention. But I'm optimistic that there were occasions that they could see, even if they aren't converted, that they could see some alternatives to the violence that, as a method, because we were working out generally a real good era. And I think the jail management was very pleased. They didn't run into any problems. It didn't land on their hands, that they could be resolved here, most of the things. And so that, that part, I think like any other kinds of success, they would probably employ some things in similar situations as an alternative, which they wouldn't have before. They, in a short period like that, in limited circumstances, I don't think you get a major conversion of a way of life on things. We, we had people who went through, members of a conscientious objector camp, who aren't any stronger for that experience. Some have followed that way the rest of their life, but some of the others have just gone back to normal life. So it varies.

I think most people who went through this experience of practicing nonviolence feel there's a merit, though to some extent, it depends on you, how you can carry it out. You have -- and it's like training in any other method. To be a soldier, good soldier, you got to go through a really tough training period. And we have to go through that kind of discipline. It's hard, hard to -- one fellow was explaining to me, he went up and literally applied the turning the other cheek. Somebody was beating somebody down, and he went up and said, "Hey, if you have to beat somebody, beat me. This guy's suffering enough." So the guy hit him down. He got up, and he hit him down again. About three times. And he said in his, "I'm telling you this story instead of being in the morgue somewhere," someplace because after the third one, he sort of gave up. It didn't give him any thrill anymore. But he was carrying out some of the turning the other cheek thing with, with its risks. And it, it depends. Give-and-take takes experience.

AI: Well, I'm also interested that you mentioned, not only did the other jail inmates give you some respect for your abilities with the negotiation work and your work on their behalf as their mayor of the tank, but and they -- also that you had not received any personal abuse because of your conscientious objecture -- objector stance. I was wondering if you received any kind of negativity for your ancestry, being of Japanese ancestry while you were there in jail.

GH: Well, I think so far as influence, that probably pay -- played a greater positive role in attitude change, being elected by the, and operating under the approval, of fellow inmates, to regard issues on the basis of the issue, rather than ancestry of one guy or the other. And, and in some respects, I had a feeling, fleetingly, I had a feeling that in some respects, these guys in jail, as uneducated as many were in the formal sense, and poor, most of them were poor, if they had more money, they would have been out on bail. And their sentence would have been cut down by the legal skills and so on made available. I think these people were probably exercising more democracy than the wealthier people, the normal types of people in the communities. But their way of running things are like most communities. The ones with the power, whether the power is in articulateness or economic background or what, they use that as a power weapon. And it's, it's used there, too. I probably, probably used it some ways, too. Not with my ancestry, but with situations that, where that would be a useful factor, I might have used it. I can't remember -- well, we used different techniques. And in terms of democracy, maybe I was -- when you argue with somebody who is not as articulate, you're taking advantage anyway in that sense. So it's hard to answer that question. But you have to do what you feel. And hoping if it's a useful method, copyable, hoping it'll be copied.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.