<Begin Segment 17>

TI: So let's, let's go to the trial. So in March, late March, there was a trial. And why don't you tell me about that, describe what that was like.

BI: Well, you know, it was the first time I was, been in a courthouse. And everything was very new and frightening to me, but the proceedings, it just seemed to me that they were just going through this trial because, because they made these accusations and they couldn't just drop it, so to me it just seemed like they were just going through it.

TI: Yeah, before we get to that part, describe like who was there. Was it, was it a very, did very many people attend the trial, was it a big courtroom?

BI: Well, it wasn't in a big courtroom, but they were, of course, all Caucasians. Thomas Masuda's wife and Chika Takahashi, (wife of Charles T. Takahashi), attended the trial.

TI: Now, why did, why did the two of them attend?

BI: Because their husbands were incarcerated and they, I guess, wanted to know what was going to happen. So they supported, supported me in court.

TI: So the three of you would talk, because you were sort of similar situations. Your husbands were...

BI: Right, uh-huh. But they kept calling one witness after another, and it was mostly, well, many of them were people who had worked at the consulate, and they were asked if they ever saw Kenji, and they said, "Yes." "How many times?" Just didn't seem like they had any real evidence that he was a spy.

TI: At this point -- and just to give some overview -- your, your husband was being sort of accused of being an agent of the Japanese government, and not necessarily a spy, it was even doing anything in terms of, of helping the Japanese government from, I think, the late '30s to the early '40s. And so an agent being someone who would... what's the right word? Have kind of the authority to speak on behalf of, say, the Japanese government, would be one type of agent. But not necessarily spying, is my understanding.

BI: No, no.

TI: It was pretty narrow kind of, and they were just trying to show that your husband had this connection with the Japanese government. And in doing so, he also didn't register as an agent, because you actually can help another government, but you just have to let the U.S. government know you're doing it. So they were trying to, are accusing him of helping the Japanese government. In, almost it could have been in its day-to-day operations, but also not telling the U.S. government. At least that's my understanding. So, so it wasn't like, necessarily, as you mentioned during the trial, it wasn't very sensational in terms of all these spying accusations, it's just like, "Were you at the embassy," they were just trying to establish that he had some relationship --

BI: Some connection, uh-huh.

TI: -- with the Japanese government, and nothing really...

BI: Concrete.

TI: Concrete, or even damaging in any way. So, okay, so let's continue. So they brought this parade of witnesses one after the other, and they were just talking about things like whether or not they saw him at the embassy or things like that. Now, there were a couple of Japanese Americans who were asked to testify, people like Bill Hosokawa. Do you recall any of that?

BI: You know, I don't remember that.

TI: Okay, I was curious what they were asked to testify.

BI: No, I don't remember.

TI: Okay. So while this was going on, and you're, because it goes on for days, what are you thinking as you hear about this? Because again, you really probably didn't have a good sense of what your husband did. And as you heard all this, what were you thinking?

BI: I just kept wondering what's going to happen.

TI: Did the lawyer say anything to you as the trial was going on about how they thought things were going?

BI: Not during the trial, but before the trial there was a lot of publicity. And one time there was an article that came out in the (Seattle Times) that he was going to get 250 years in prison. And I was going home from visiting him, and when I got home, my family said there was a call from, from the lawyer, and said, "Ignore the article in the paper." They wanted to assure me that, "Don't worry about that." They were very, very concerned for my well-being as well.

TI: And so during the trial, were you just commuting from Bellevue to Seattle every day?

BI: Yes, uh-huh.

TI: And when you got home from the trial, from, yeah, the trial, and got home, what did you do? What was it like when you came home?

BI: It was just, just being nervous. We didn't talk too much about it or wondered why all that was going on. You know, it was something so foreign to us, you know, farmers, farmer daughter, farmer's daughter going into court like that, so I don' t think they even knew enough to ask any questions, it was so new to them.

TI: But it must have been really hard because people really didn't know what was going on, they weren't talking to you, their only information was the papers, and the papers had essentially accused your husband of being a spy, saying that he should, would get 250 years in jail. So there must have been this sense in the community that he was guilty of something.

BI: Yeah, uh-huh.

TI: And they, and you would have to walk around that kind of environment. Again, so it must have been very, very hard for you, especially being around people who, who kind of knew who your husband was. And do you recall any incidents or anything while the trial was going on?

BI: Not really. (Narr. note: Sometime before the trial started, I was walking down the street going toward Jackson, and Bill Mimbu was coming up the street. My sister Amy was with me. When Bill saw me, he crossed the street to avoid me.)

TI: Okay, so let's continue. So anything else you can remember about the trial as it's going on, in terms of either a witness or anything the lawyers said that stand out?

BI: No, I really don't. A few times something was asked, and the people in court sort of giggled, and the judge reprimanded them. But there was nothing real sensational, you know, during the trial.

TI: Now, the, when, after the prosecution rested, the defense, the defense case, they didn't really call very many witnesses. I think you were one of the few people that they called to the stand. And do you remember what they asked you when you were on the stand?

BI: Oh, they asked me my name, I don't know if they asked me my age. I think they asked me if I had a child, and I said, "Yes." It was only two or three questions.

TI: And did the prosecution ask you any questions?

BI: No.

TI: And so after the defense, I think, had you, maybe, maybe your brother might have been there, or someone else -- I looked at the court records -- but it was either you and maybe one or two other people, but it was very, very short in terms of the defense.

BI: Oh, yes.

TI: And then they rested their case.

BI: Uh-huh.

TI: Do you remember anything from the closing arguments, either the government's closing arguments or the defense?

BI: Not really.

TI: Okay.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2006 Densho. All Rights Reserved.