<Begin Segment 14>

TI: Okay, so let's just talk about the days after, now, December 8th. I mean, when, when were you able to see Ken for the first time?

BI: It was after he was transferred to the county jail (on December 20, 1941).

TI: So, so explain to me where he was initially, so when he was first picked up, where did they take him?

BI: Well, he was held at the immigration department, and he was held there for it seemed like two weeks but I'm not sure just how many days. And...

TI: When he was held at the immigration, was there confusion on whether or not he was a U.S. citizen or not?

BI: I don't know why they held him there. I think when they realized he was a citizen, they transferred him to the county jail. And there was a big picture of him in handcuffs being taken to county jail. It was in the LA Times -- not, the Seattle Times.

TI: And, and in this article, was it, that the time they identified him as a, as a Japanese spy?

BI: Uh-huh.

TI: So that's when they transferred him... so, okay, from the immigration center on, I'm guessing on Airport Way over to the county jail. So when this happened, did you get any comments from, like, your family or the people in the community about, about Ken?

BI: Not from the community. My family was horrified, you know. And of course, we were so mixed up what was going on, and we didn't really know what in the world, why all this was happening. And so... anyway, after he landed in the county jail, I was able to go see him.

TI: And can you, can you tell me about that meeting? What was, sort of, what it was like?

BI: Well, it was, it was horrible, to tell you the truth, because I had to take the elevator to the jail, it was in the county courthouse, I guess it was. And I had to take the elevator that said "jail," and I thought, "Oh my God." So embarrassing, and I just felt terrible having to take a elevator up, up that elevator, and I looked around to see if anybody was watching me. And I saw him, but behind bars, and I think that's when he asked me to get in contact with some lawyers. I can't recall exactly, but...

TI: But do you, do you remember what you, what he looked like when you first saw him? Did he look the same, or did he look any different?

BI: Oh, he looked, to me he looked nervous.

TI: And so he, he started, when you guys were talking, it was more about ways or trying to find help for, for him.

BI: Uh-huh.

TI: Now, your husband was a, a lawyer, he knew other lawyers in the Japanese community. Did any of them, were any of them able to help? Like you mentioned earlier, Mimbu and... what's the other one? Mimbu and Masuda. Were they, were they...

BI: They were also held.

TI: So they were also being held at this point?

BI: Yes, uh-huh.

TI: Were there any other lawyers in the Japanese community that were available to help?

BI: Well Bill Mimbu was also an attorney, but he, he was not held.

TI: So was he available to help, then? Did he help?

BI: No. (Narr. note: I didn't ask Bill Mimbu to help. Ken didn't suggest it. He didn't associate with Bill Mimbu because Bill was a younger attorney.)

TI: Now, was Bill also, Mimbu, a member of the JACL?

BI: That I don't know.

TI: So your, your husband, Ken, gave you some contacts for lawyers. What else did the two of you talk about?

BI: Well, he didn't want me to mention Ayleen. He said, "Oh, don't talk about her." It was too hard on him, so he wouldn't let me talk about Ayleen. Oh, we talked about what might happen to him.

TI: Do you recall what types of things you talked about in terms of what might happen to him?

BI: That he might be railroaded and might... oh, I can't remember too much. We didn't talk about the case, and we didn't, we didn't talk too much. He would write something and then put it on the window and then I would write something back so he could read it. We didn't want people listening to us so we did a lot of writing back and forth. But it wasn't so much about his case, but what was happening to the Japanese. (Narr. note: We also talked about money -- where we were going to get it to pay attorney fees. We borrowed the money from my parents and brother Tak and were not able to pay it back until about 1950.)

TI: And so Ken just wanted information, news about what was happening, kind of, out there?

BI: Well, I think he knew, but we would talk about, So-and-so was gone, and... I can't even remember what we talked about, really.

TI: When, when Ken talked about possibly being railroaded, did he ever talk about who might be behind that?

BI: No.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2006 Densho. All Rights Reserved.