<Begin Segment 4>

TI: Okay, so you arrive in Washington, D.C. Now, were you, was someone going to meet you there from the OSS, or how did you get from there to the OSS?

HH: Well, I arrived at Central Station in Washington, D.C. And near there, there was a place that I was supposed to go to catch a bus into where I should go, because I had to take a bus to go into Maryland. But I had instructions and everything else, so I was waiting for that bus to take us into Collingwood, the destination of where we had to go, to Maryland. And finally several buses came and I had to ask each one, "Is this the one that's going into Maryland?" Then I got on, but then I didn't know... I knew that it should be segregated seating in a bus. So I had to ask... well, I didn't know because nobody was on the bus yet.

TI: So you knew the buses were segregated, and you, I guess I'm trying to figure out, so you weren't sure where you were supposed to sit on the bus.

HH: Well, yes.

TI: Whether or not, I mean, back then it was, like, the "colored" section for blacks, and then the white section.

HH: Yes.

TI: And so what were you thinking?

HH: Well, I knew that they, the blacks, were supposed to sit in the back end, and so I didn't know where I should be. So I thought, well, maybe I should sit around the middle of the bus, and then as I see them filling up. But it wasn't really that filled up that there was any problem. But anyway, I was sitting about halfway back.

TI: So you were thinking that as more whites came on, you would just always be behind the whites but in front of the blacks?

HH: Yes. [Laughs] In between, I thought it would be a safe place, because there was no designation where the blacks were supposed to sit, behind that line or something.

TI: Okay, so that's interesting. All right. And then what happened?

HH: Then as we started getting into Virginia, because that's the bus to Alexandria, and that's where you had to change to a bus that went to Mount Vernon area, that I had to change the bus, to take the bus. So it was kind of a big question that I didn't know where to go, but there was a lady sitting in the front side, and she heard me talking to the driver. And she says, "I'm going to be going near," where I arrive at Alexandria. So she says, "Why don't you sit here," with her.

TI: That's interesting. So while you were talking to the bus driver to make sure that you were, first, on the right bus, and how to get to where you were going, this white woman overheard you and said she was going to a place that was nearby.

HH: To her home.

TI: To her home nearby, and she asked you, and she said, she invited you to sit right next to her.

HH: Yes. And I was kind of surprised, too, because this was one of the first times that I'm by myself in a public area. And so after I met the people at the OSS headquarters that they had, where I'm going to be staying, I mentioned that. And they told me, "You know, when you're over here, there's only two classifications. You're either a white or a black. There's nothing in between." I'm yellow race. [Laughs] And says, "You're a white." And that was kind of a strange experience that I had.

TI: So there wasn't like this middle place where, in between the blacks and the whites for you, that you were white. That's interesting.

HH: Because even Washington, D.C., they didn't have blacks living in a certain area. It was always a designated place that they, Washington, D.C. is the capitol, it still had a designated area for blacks.

TI: So this being your first experience with segregation, how did that make you feel when you saw that?

HH: Well, I was surprised, really, because we were segregated during the second war. And I was not prepared for that, really. I mean, I didn't know how I should act, whether I'm a black or a white. [Laughs]

TI: Right, because you had just come from a segregated situation, and now you were, interestingly, you were put in the white section and not the black section. Did you see anything in terms of the prejudice against blacks during this time period?

HH: Well, I didn't know about, I'm sure Washington, D.C. was the same as segregation goes, but employment and things like that, there were blacks working in the restaurants and things but mostly only as cooks and waiters. But when I finally found out about the restrooms is after I got, when I got inducted and everything else, and on the way to induction center. The restrooms were, you had separate entrances for blacks and whites.

TI: But by this time, you knew that you were to go to the whites'.

HH: Yes, I had to be sure that... I knew that there was separate restrooms.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2006 Densho. All Rights Reserved.