<Begin Segment 48>

TI: Okay, so where we ended the last tape was we're still talking about the, perhaps the, how some people felt about the JACL leaders, and that you had just finished the story about how it just so happened that some of the belongings of JACL leaders happened to sometimes be dropped, these crates and things.

HH: And not only that, sometimes I did hear about the fact that at night, a group of young, most likely ones that were "no-nos" and came from other camps, they would knock on the door at nighttime and when you go out, they beat them up. So I did hear several incidents, but I'm sure there were other incidents like that.

TI: Well, so I'm curious, from your perspective, you personally, because you had a close association with Jimmy Sakamoto in Seattle, and Jimmy Sakamoto was known as a JACL leader. Because you worked with him, did you ever feel any tension towards you as a possible sort of pro-JACL person? Were you ever concerned about that?

HH: No, no.

TI: Now, why was that? Why, is it because people didn't know that you knew Jimmy Sakamoto, or it just, I'm curious why you weren't worried.

HH: Well, I think that didn't come from my mind at any time, until I went to Minidoka and found out that he was kind of ostracized. But I didn't know during the Puyallup camp time, because he, the JACL members or officers, they took a more prominent part of the administration of "Camp Harmony" at that time.

TI: Oh, so it's kind of interesting. Do you think it would have been a lot different if you had instead, if Tacoma people instead went to Puyallup, and here was a place where someone you knew, Jimmy Sakamoto, became sort of one of the people who kind of took charge at Puyallup. Do you think that it would have been a little different for you? Because he probably would have asked you to help him in that situation, because he knew you already.

HH: Yes, there is that possibility.

TI: That you would, at that point, if you had been to Puyallup...

HH: Most likely, yes.

TI: ...might have been more, perhaps, perceived as more of a JACL person because of your connection. But by going to Tule Lake and being separated from Jimmy Sakamoto, I guess what I'm hearing is that you weren't really perceived as a JACL person.

HH: No.

TI: And so you weren't, there was no sort of animosity shown towards you because of that, because you weren't JACL.

HH: Because the Tacoma people only knew me as Tacoma, not associated with Seattle too much.

TI: Okay, so that makes sense. While we're on the topic of Jimmy Sakamoto, I just wanted to kind of end a few things. So you said that in Puyallup, he was one of the people who helped lead things or organize things, but then by the time he was at Minidoka, you said that he was pretty much ostracized?

HH: I think so. I didn't know until I went to Minidoka, because the only thing I could have contact with Minidoka was we were getting camp papers from all the camps, and sometimes we would use articles, especially during that time of segregation. We would get some articles from other camps that was published in their papers. So we had a pretty good idea of what's going on in the other camps.

TI: That's interesting. Staying with Jimmy Sakamoto, so when you did see him at Minidoka later on, what was your sense about where, how he was feeling about everything?

HH: Well, by the time I went to Minidoka, and then I found out that he was there. I didn't really know if he was there or not until I actually visited him, which was not too far from my barrack. And he met me and everything else, but there was nothing said anything about being ostracized or anything like that. But I almost felt that he could be, being involved with the JACL, and also being the Courier publisher and editor. So we just kind of exchanged ideas and whatever.

TI: And your sense of Jimmy being ostracized, you mentioned the JACL and the Japanese American Courier, and so some people have felt, well, Jimmy Sakamoto was too trusting of the government, he felt that everything was going to be okay, and always sort of struck a note of let's cooperate with the government. And so there was some resentment towards Jimmy saying that probably wasn't the thing that the Japanese Americans should have done. So there's that side, there's also some stories that Jimmy Sakamoto secretly sort of helped or gave information to people like the FBI. What's your sense about that? Do you have any sense of what the truth is about Jimmy Sakamoto?

HH: No, I don't think I heard anybody say anything or even I didn't hear from the Courier office or anything like that. I think the idea about cooperation is better is more central at that time since Jimmy was not president of the national JACL.

TI: So at that point it was more --

HH: It was in California.

TI: -- Mike Masaoka.

HH: Mike Masaoka or others, and there was also a Northwest person, Hito Okada, I think. Anyway, that was more active, because he was down in California area. So no, and not only that, Jimmy showed me -- he was very proud of it -- a poem that he wrote about the 442nd.

TI: And this was a poem he wrote during, when he was in camp?

HH: Yes. And I even published it in my, in the Nisei Vet paper after, when I was involved with the NVC newsletter, that I did publish his article hoping that maybe after the war, Jimmy was back in Seattle and working at St. Vincent de Paul. So I thought maybe, and knowing the position that he was in, but I always considered him a real American.

TI: Okay, so this poem that he wrote about the 442, you published in the NVC newsletter later on, this is after the war, in the hopes that when people read the poem, they would better able to kind of see him as who he is.

HH: Yes. Especially in a Nisei vet paper. But I didn't get any reaction from the Nisei Vets members or anything. It was just published and that was it.

TI: Okay, good. I just wanted to kind of bring closure to Jimmy's story.

<End Segment 48> - Copyright © 2006 Densho. All Rights Reserved.