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TI: So, you mentioned how your father was religious, and read the Bible. When he came to the United States, was, did he get association with a church?

GH: No. The Katsunos, Gordon's parents and my parents, they called it the mukyokai, which is "non-church." And so what they did was they would hold meetings at different homes. And Grant Murphy, whose name I take, used to come about once a month and would conduct service.

TI: So Grant Murphy was a, kind of a lay-clergy type of person?

GH: Yes, uh-huh.

TI: And so he would come once a month and apparently your parents were so impressed with him that they named you after him.

GH: As a matter of fact, he spoke Japanese. He was in Japan as a missionary.

TI: Interesting.

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