<Begin Segment 33>

TI: So when you left there, what happened next? Where did you go?

GH: After the war ended, I was sent to -- oh, as a matter of fact, I was called in one day that I was (told) to accompany Colonel Burden, John Burden, head of SINTIC (Sino Translation and Interrogation Center), to go to Nanking, and I was to serve as a personal interpreter to General McClure. And that morning, they pinned a bar on me and I took the oath, so I was a second lieutenant. General Ho Ying-chen --

TI: Just, I'm curious, the, becoming an officer, was part of it because you were going to be an interpreter to such a high-level officer that it would not look right to, if it wasn't --

GH: For enlisted man, yeah. There's more to it. [Laughs] Well, General Ho Ying-chen, his mother's Japanese. Dr. Ho Ying-chen, representing Generalissimo Chiang Kai Shek, and Colonel Burden and myself, we all three of us flew on the C-46 to Nanking. And on the way, I had a very interesting experience. I went up to the cockpit, and the captain says, "Grant, sit." So I sat on the pilot's seat, but he said, "Don't you dare touch anything." The plane was on automatic flight. It was a beautiful day, and I had my thrill. But when I got to Nanking, I was taken aback to see surrounded by Japanese soldiers, and interspersed with some GIs and some nationalist troops. And we were guided to a car --

TI: So let me make sure I understand. So you're surrounded by Japanese soldiers interspersed with some GIs. So were the GIs guarding the Japanese soldiers?

GH: No, no. They were doing all the work around, I guess they were ordered to do certain things.

TI: Well, were the Japanese soldiers armed, or did, their weapons were taken away?

GH: I can't recall that part. I just know what...

TI: Because at this point, the Japanese, although they had formally surrendered, they had essentially lost the war and surrendered.

GH: No, and they're working so I don't think they had, they couldn't carry their rifle and do this.

TI: But they were freely walking around...

GH: Yeah, uh-huh. But we were then led to the waiting car, it was a 1936 Chevrolet, and Colonel Burden and I got on, and, but then some strange views was revealed. I could see the soldiers with bayonets marching down the street.

TI: The Japanese soldiers with bayonets?

GH: Yeah. And officers with the swords dangling on the side. At the main intersection, it was manned by machine gun.

TI: Machine guns by the...

GH: Japanese.

TI: Japanese. So the Japanese had machine guns...

GH: Oh yeah, at the major intersections.

TI: ...in Nanking. How did that make you and the other American soldiers feel?

GH: [Laughs] Well, I had my fingers crossed, I just hoped that nothing happened. And I was told later that there were 78,000 Japanese, support, supported by 280 puppet troops. Well, to make a long story short, we did arrive at the hotel safely, and after the, after we settled, Colonel Burden says, "Grant, let's go for a walk." So came out, we carried a .45 pistol, and as we turned the corner, here comes three Japanese soldiers, three abreast, coming down the sidewalk. And the colonel says, "What are you going to do?" So I pushed, without responding, I pushed him off the sidewalk. I wasn't about to have confrontation with them. And the Japanese are very cocky; their attitude was that they were victorious in China, and they said they were willing to fight on, but they will stop because of the Emperor's order. Well, the following day --

TI: Well, explain that one more time. So the, the three Japanese soldiers were walking on the sidewalk towards you, you and the colonel were walking the other way, and then when you were confronted, you did what? You pushed them off?

GH: I pushed, he said, "What are you going to do?" And so I pushed him off.

TI: You pushed the colonel?

GH: Yeah.

TI: You pushed the colonel and you off the sidewalk to let them pass.

GH: Sidewalk, I let them go.

TI: Even though you were, the Americans were the victors?

GH: I know. But what are you going to do, put up a fight?

TI: And the colonel was okay with that? He didn't get upset?

GH: He didn't say anything. [Laughs] He didn't say anything.

TI: That's interesting. But you, you had a sense that the Japanese were so proud that if you didn't do that, there would have been a possible confrontation.

GH: I didn't want any trouble. [Laughs]

<End Segment 33> - Copyright © 2006 Densho. All Rights Reserved.