<Begin Segment 25>

TI: So going back to the fifth day, so surrounded, the barrage comes in, tell me what that was like.

JY: From what others tell me, it must have been quite an overwhelming kind of experience. Because one of the medics said that, referred to my amputating a limb, and I said I couldn't recall that. He said, "I was right there with you, and you did." And so that some of the experience of those days, I'm sure, is so overwhelming it's just erased from your mind, a lot of the more incredible kind of injury that humans inflict on each other. It seems like such an impersonal kind of thing, especially of any weapon. They have no idea of the impact of any kind of bullet or cannon striking a person, because you're not there to receive that impact. It was true of bombing, and then, of course, we were, our experience in Japan.

TI: So going back, so your unit's in this, essentially, hopeless situation.

JY: Yeah.

TI: And so, and you come under this heavy barrage. What happens next in terms of your commanding officer? What does he decide to do?

JY: Well, not the commanding officer, one of the, what they call executive officer, very fine guy, he came down with some white cloth and said that we were surrendering.

TI: Do you think there was any other option at that point?

JY: No, of course not.

TI: Just to be able to save whatever lives were left.

JY: That's right, just to top the carnage, yeah.

TI: And so as soon as the white flag comes up, as the U.S. soldiers, do they then just put their firearms down, or what happens next?

JY: I can't remember the sequence. It eventually stops, and I'm sure it wasn't instantaneous.

TI: And then the Germans come in, and what was that like for you?

JY: Well, they let us know that we could continue to take care of the wounded. Then after a while, about several hours later, they said that, "You'll have to end the, gathering the wounded," and marched us off.

TI: And so what happened to all the wounded that you...

JY: I have no idea. I've tried many times, tried to find out what happened to them.

TI: What do you suspect? Do you believe that, perhaps, they were left there to die, or do you think some of them...

JY: Oh, of course. Yes, there's no question about that. Because there's myriads of pictures where the German soldiers, after their capture, are carrying the frozen bodies out of the forest.

TI: I'm sorry, the Germans are carrying what frozen bodies?

JY: All the soldiers, both Americans and Germans.

TI: Oh, I see. And so, again, this was a harsh winter, it was cold, and here you had all these wounded soldiers, I think you put them on, in trucks. And you've never found out or heard what happened.

JY: Yeah, just one soldier, we found out years later, at one of our reunions, told us he was evacuated into a hospital where he was treated.

TI: Okay, so some of them survived.

JY: Yes.

TI: Okay, so you do whatever you can, and then you're ordered to march out.

JY: Right.

TI: And why don't you talk about that. So where were you marched?

JY: We were marched eastward, and we eventually after a day or so arrived in a place called, city called Koblenz. And just as we were being evacuated, we came to a crossroad where there were some dismembered bodies in the snow, and they were black soldiers, about a dozen or so, I can't remember too well. And that was a very stark, it was so different from the other combat injuries, this looked like a very well-organized killing. And we had to march on and leave them there.

TI: So you were marching by these bodies, a dozen or so U.S. soldiers, black. And by the way their bodies were there, it looked like it was close range, almost execution-style?

JY: Yes, right.

TI: As you're marching, are there any opportunities to, are people talking, or did you hear any comments when you walked by?

JY: Oh, I didn't hear too many comments, no. We did talk about it.

TI: What were you, I mean, it must be... what were you thinking?

JY: Well, that they were singled out because of their race, is what I was thinking.

TI: Did you see any reaction from the German soldiers who you were guarding. Did they have any reaction when they walked by the bodies? Do you recall anything?

JY: I don't think there was much. We just, their orders was to get us marching, I think.

TI: So you were thinking that because they were black, that they were singled out and essentially executed.

JY: Yeah. But it sort of lingers in your mind for the rest of the war until you get home, what about our families in camp? What could they do to us? If the war in Japan, in the Pacific gets so bad that if the tide went against our country, and with the feelings toward those in the internment can be changed from just enclosure to one of victimizing our families. You thought about that.

TI: Because you just see what war can do.

JY: Yeah, to human beings.

TI: This disregard for human life.

JY: Yeah, until I got home, I wasn't sure.

TI: That must have been hard. So you walked by this, these atrocities, and then where did you go?

JY: At Koblenz, we were put into boxcars.

TI: And before you do it, how long was the column? How many soldiers were captured?

JY: Oh, there's... I guess thousands.

TI: So it was a huge line.

JY: Hundreds and hundreds, at least... it was just endless, anyhow.

TI: So what was the mood? I mean, again, most of them were just there for literally less than two weeks, I mean, it was such a short period. How would you characterize the mood? What were you feeling as this was happening? Were you in fear of your life? What were you thinking?

JY: I guess more of the uncertainty of what was going to happen next. I think that was pervasive for the rest of the war, what was going to happen next.

TI: Now, was there any information, was there any knowledge of what the Germans were doing to Jews?

JY: Not at that time.

TI: So you guys did not understand. Okay, so here you're loaded into boxcars, and I'm guessing that you guys were crowded in there, you must have not had that much room.

JY: Right, uh-huh. There's no toilet facilities, of course.

TI: And they're unheated, I take it?

JY: Of course.

TI: And is there enough room to sit and lie down?

JY: Perhaps. It was pretty crowded. So we would look, when we approached a city, we would try to look for some landmark that might tell us where we were at. And there were very distinct placards near the railroad stations that told you what towns we were going through.

TI: I'm curious, in this situation, was there much semblance of hierarchy left? I mean, I imagine in the boxcars there were officers and there were infantry, was there any sense of the officers trying to organize things in the boxcars?

JY: No, we were just a defeated bunch of soldiers. No, we knew that we were at their mercy, yeah.

TI: Okay, so you're in the boxcars, how long were you in the boxcars?

JY: I can't remember, day or so. The time is sort of hard to remember.

TI: And can you recall any conversation?

JY: Conversations, no, just sort of peering out, wondering where we were at. It's useless to say where we're going.

<End Segment 25> - Copyright © 2005 Densho. All Rights Reserved.