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TI: And then 1924, the Immigration Act of 1924 we talked about earlier, where the United States says if you're Japanese, you can't come to the United States. And furthermore, they would go through and try to deport anyone who wasn't here legally. Explain or describe that period.

JY: As we grew older, after '24 as we grew older, I think that was a constant reminder something was, at least in our mind, something wasn't quite right about things going on in the country. And somewhere along the road, we brought up the subject that the country didn't want us. And my dad would remind us, well, even when the immigration law passed, that it was seven to one in Congress. I think it was something like that. He said, "Think about that one that stood up for you. It's always gonna be like that," he said. All during your lifetime, you got five friends, you could count on your hands that's hundred percent loyal and friendly to you, you're a lucky guy if you have five that you could claim that for a lifetime. So he said, "You have a Congress that's seven to one, and all the state legislature, it was never a hundred percent. There was always a group that stood for something else." He said, "You ought to think about, think what those other people would mean to your life."

TI: Wow, so he really was, in my view, a real optimist, that he would, even though it was seven to one, I think most people would look at, wow, the overwhelming majority is against us, and what can we do. He would instead look at that one and see hope that it could be better because you have that one person out of eight who would support the...

JY: Yeah, my concept, my thinking about that was that, well, that seven percent was really wrong. In a democracy, we say the overwhelming people's vote is what the country will go to. On the other hand, if all the seventy percent or eighty percent of the country voted this is the law of the land, their opinion could be completely wrong, and that small percentage could be completely right. So this is the kind of thinking I think he tried to convey to us.

TI: No, that's good. Well, so not only were there laws like the Immigration Act of 1924, but I'm just curious, on a day to day basis, were there incidences or events that reminded you that you were Japanese, Japanese ancestry, and didn't have the full rights like others had? I mean, like, were there cases where you were denied access to places or weren't given jobs? Can you talk about that?

JY: Oh, that was pervasive to the time we graduated college. And graduation day, we didn't attend graduation ceremonies because we needed, saw the need to get a job which we couldn't obtain in town, so we went to the countryside.

TI: So you're saying, so even if you graduated from high school, you knew right away that there were only certain types of jobs that were available to you, most of them were probably in agriculture, farming areas, you would go out there. That it was hard to get jobs in the city?

JY: In the city.

TI: What would be an example of a job that you would want in the city that you couldn't get?

JY: Well, I thought that if I didn't get into medical school, I could still study if I got a job as a mail carrier, and applied for civil service. I never got a reply. I thought, gee, delivering mail, I shouldn't get pooped out doing mail all day, I should have plenty of energy left for study at nighttime, so I thought that would be a way of studying something after college. But I never got the application back.

TI: Now, so you didn't get an application back, but were there ever any other Niseis who became postal carriers?

JY: Not that I know of, no.

TI: How about other examples? Were there other examples of places that you tried to apply to and you were denied?

JY: Well, of course, one was when I was still a young teenager, I went to the Ambassador Hotel, which was the biggest hotel in town, which was walking distance from my home. And I put on a clean shirt and tie and all that, and when I applied -- this was just a job as a porter, or some menial job, I'd do anything just to have a job. I was shown the back door and told just to remove myself from the premises. It was hard for me to forget that.

TI: So what did it feel like when they showed you the back door?

JY: Well, I guess I had some pretty strong feelings. And I think it's at times like that that I would discuss this thing, this Christian country, what's it all about? Really, Christians, I said, "I think the things you talk about in your sermon is fine, and this is supposed to be a Christian country, and this is what they do?" I said I really don't feel that there's some hypocrisy here.

TI: So after these hard times, you'd go to your dad and talk to him.

JY: At times I recall having a few talks about that.

TI: Do you recall how he responded?

JY: Well, these were the things he says, there are a few people who do follow the precepts of the church. And he did have the few friends that he would point out to me. He said, "These are real friends you have."

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2005 Densho. All Rights Reserved.