<Begin Segment 12>

TI: How about issues of just, discrimination? Was it, did, were there overt sort of discrimination against the Japanese?

MH: So much... we didn't feel it so much in Ellensburg, I guess. It was much harder in Seattle, because Ellensburg is such a small town that we didn't, we didn't go into establishments, but they knew us. We didn't go into big stores or hotels or anything. And the one restaurant that was a good one was run by Chinese. Those were the only Asians there, were the Chinese cooks. So we'd go to that New York Restaurant, and so we didn't try to break in anyplace. And then as far as our social life was concerned, we just, each one of us had close friends and we just stuck with them.

TI: So when you say you didn't try to break in to these larger establishments...

MH: Well, we went to the church there, of course, we were greeted.

TI: Was your sense, though, that you would not be welcome at some of these establishments?

MH: Yeah, we were afraid. I mean, what's the use of... I'm a risky person, but there, I just figured, well, we just needed to get along.

TI: But you mentioned that you saw more in Seattle than Ellensburg?

MH: Oh, well, in Seattle, we used to try to go to, they used to call them roadhouses, they'd have these dance places along the road, people, young people could go in. They would never allow us to go into them, we were refused service in restaurants, we were, we couldn't buy houses where we wanted, Queen Anne, or even where we live. If we went there, to Arlington, we probably would have been kicked out. And...

TI: So when you went to a restaurant and they denied you service, how would they do that? How would you know that...

MH: Oh, they would tell us point-blank, "We don't serve."

TI: So you'd walk in...

MH: We'd walk in and they'd say, "I'm sorry, we don't serve Japanese," and you walk out. And then places that did serve, they'd put us next to the restroom or next to the noisy kitchen or someplace in the corner, and then they wouldn't serve us for a long time until we knew they didn't want us, so we'd stand up and walk out. And those things happened, and you go into, you go to a motel -- we had children, and we'd try to get into a motel, they would say, "It's all filled." But you know darn well there were vacancies. They have ways of doing it.

TI: And so when you're with your friends and you go to a restaurant and they tell you you can't go there, what would you say amongst your friends when that happened?

MH: Oh, we just look at each other. I mean, we didn't think much about it. It was, I guess like the blacks in the South who just accept their position in life, and I think to a great extent, we did. Just, just accepted this as a fact of life. And we weren't even embarrassed because it was done to all of us. It's when you're picked out as one that it's more embarrassing. Even with boys dating us and trying to get someplace, it can embarrass them, because we knew.

TI: I'm sorry, say that again? When boys were dating...

MH: You know, dating us and we couldn't go to certain places.

TI: I see.

MH: We'd be, you know, a man would be embarrassed to not be allowed to go in, but we just accepted it, I guess. Hadn't even thought about that.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.