<Begin Segment 32>

TI: Well, let me ask you this; this might be a hard question, because you built the business, and with that, it was hand-in-hand with an emphasis on not exploiting others, and in fact, really making it more people-powered as well as being a successfully-run business. But at some point, whether it's the competition or whatever, there are now other companies in this business that are successful, and the Osborn & Ullands are no longer there.

YN: That's the beauty of it.

TI: Is that the beauty, or...?

YN: That is the beauty of it.

TI: So, explain this. I mean, it seems like, like it's, to be socially conscious and run a business in some of these industries is, is very difficult or almost impossible.

YN: Nothing, nothing is built upon a person. Now, you could take every great philosophy of the world: education, being a doctor, a religious leader, nothing is done unto itself. If you find a cure for cancer, it's not for just one group, it's for all. And economics should have no part of the cure. If you're in research, the great business you come from, it cannot only be good for the people that found the companies. Because it's no longer there has nothing -- because Jackie Robinson's no longer alive, what is accomplished was far greater after his death, because it was the message, not the attainment of physical (or material) being.

TI: Well, so do you think your, what happened to Osborn & Ulland and the messages that you had will have an effect later on? Or...

YN: It's prevailing every day. Because the only thing I failed or was not content with, was what is known as the economics, or the financial base. When the bank says, "No more money," when I didn't owe them any money, I could have beat 'em. 'Cause they were putting out minority-run businesses (in that sense but I chose not to go that route. We closed.)

TI: But see, isn't that the point, though? Because don't you think if, if you were still in charge of a large, thriving Osborn & Ulland, the influence, the being at the table, being at the boardroom, you would have more influence?

YN: No. Because it's time for new leadership. I don't have the answers for tomorrow. I had the answers out of my history; I had to answer it for my people. People like you and her will take what you hear from me and bring it into... I try to explain this to you. I'm totally computer illiterate. I don't understand the magnitude of what that can do. I'm totally floored when I see what you do here, 'cause I have no, no concept of what you are doing. I just have to believe you know what you're doing. My knowledge is useless to you except what I am sharing with you, of why bringing closure to anything is not wrong. I would not fit in for the way people want to do things today.

TI: But what you do have, in this sort of unique experience of during a very turbulent time in the sporting goods and the sporting world, the '60s, the '70s, when lots of changes were happening.

YN: Absolutely.

TI: You were in the behind-the-door meetings...

YN: I was knocking, right.

TI: ...and saw this, and I guess what I'm trying to get --

YN: It was done. That's the part I want to -- it wasn't not done, it was done. We broke the barriers at the University of Washington, we broke the barriers of sports. Now, it's got a long ways to go yet, but that's somebody else's time to emerge with their empowerment. You've taken your empowerment, she's taken her empowerment, to do what you're doing. You can, you are fully authorized to tell the story, just like I was. But I had to wait my turn.

<End Segment 32> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.