<Begin Segment 31>

TI: So, so here you were running Osborn & Ulland, at that point, one of the largest sporting goods --

YN: It (was). Not (...) the largest, (...) but it became one of the leading (retailers and a) conscience (to) the industry. I challenged -- I was still the brat -- (...) all the authorities (and leaders) of my (sports) industry why it was the way it was, (and we needed a change).

TI: This was only after you were in charge.

YN: I was empowered. That is correct. Until I was leading, I just bit the bullet. And I'll tell you, half of those in business never called upon me for forty-five years I was there.

TI: Because they didn't like... well, tell me why.

YN: Simply, I was there. There was a time (we possibly) could have been a part of Nordstrom, maybe because we were both Scandinavian background. I knew we were Norwegian, they were Swedish background (...). But I was the chair of the company, and I wasn't gonna give up (our) empowerment (and influence in the sports world).

TI: So at some point, the founders not only gave you the management responsibility, but at some point, the ownership, or the control of...

YN: Control. I never had ownership, but I had complete control because they disappeared (from the retail section of the business). They had a good deal, as long as I made profit, there was no more questions asked.

TI: So under your control, you talked about how you would challenge the industry. What are some ways that you challenged the industry?

YN: Only as a way a Japanese American would do. In the quietness, I didn't march the streets, and I didn't do economic boycotts, but I was always present in the boardrooms where I heard the talk. And many times they forgot I was there. That was my first time I learned I now had a role.

TI: Well, what were some of the things said in these, in these boardrooms?

YN: Simply, if I wanted to see people of color, I would go down to the level of the factory, and they were there. I said, "But I am not the factory worker. I am here as a part of this great company's management, and I am tired year after year being the only one being different." And (an example), Nike, until Jessie Jackson marched on 'em, they had no blacks in top management, but all their products were black-endorsed. It's a lack of understanding.

TI: So what you were seeing was although the industry catered to people of color, in particular blacks in terms of their sporting wear and things like this, at the management level, it was...

YN: In the business level, they were never there; they were invisible. And those of the, those of us that got through to those levels, never wanted to address those issues for other people. It's only when I had the comfort zone of my identity, I can speak for my brothers and sisters that weren't Japanese American.

TI: Now, was it just your identity, or was it the control that you had? It was the empowerment.

YN: It was empowerment I had, because I knew I could contribute. There was no doubt in my mind I could bring to the table something that they didn't have a clue about, that would be good for them. I didn't bring something that was bad for them, I never went there to make them earn less money.

TI: So explain to me why that was good for them. Why did that help them make more money, by bringing this other voice...

YN: In? Because the world market isn't comprised of only this market called America. We're one spaceship Earth. Now, what am I saying? What I was saying is not only for America. The Chinese, the Europeans, the Japanese, would also take the same footstep of empowerment of white America. I did not see the hiring of my ethnic Americans and these top jobs of the world, either. The Japanese used the, I did not see them (...). "Oh, you just don't hire Japanese Americans. You have to look at other people." They ignored the Japanese American people as much as (white) America did, if not more so, and they had less reason to. I could eat their food, I could identify with their culture and had understanding. But that wasn't (...) the "American" (they perceived to lead their companies in the States).

TI: Hmm, so, so you're able to help them. I mean, it also helped Osborn & Ulland, because under your management, it grew considerably.

YN: Not only grew, (we) grew where (we were) a part of the athletes of the world (who) also identified with us; that's why they all came. They gave (us) credibility; it wasn't the business. The business, the bottom line gives you credibility, and your growth and how much more business you have done, but that doesn't prove your people power. The Japanese Americans should be talking about people, not their economic success. Not (only) what high attainments they made in their professional field, (but the responsibility to all people and cultures of the world).

TI: Do they work hand-in-hand, or were they separate?

YN: They're hand-in-hand, always. It's (...) when you (exploit and) use the others to make gain, it is in conflict. When you exploit people, women or children of the world, we're no better than our internment (experience).

<End Segment 31> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.