<Begin Segment 22>

AI: Well, so then you were just starting to say about how you then got out of Minidoka, your friend sponsored you to go to Chicago. At that time, that was quite a long train ride.

MN: It was a long train ride, and I go, "Gee, you have to be brave to go on your own all the way to Chicago at that young age."

AI: Did you have other friends that were going out at the same time?

MN: No, I went by myself, and there were, I had friends over there, so it was nice. And when I left camp, since we ate all those starchy foods -- in those days, we used to wear this pleated skirt that used to hang straight. Well, by the time I left camp and wore that skirt, all the pleats were turning out -- [laughs] -- 'cause I had gained so much weight. But as soon as I got into the big city, unknown city and hustle and bustle, which was scary, I lost my weight. I didn't know how, but it just fell off of me, and I never gained it back.

AI: That must have been the, was that the biggest city you'd ever been to?

MN: Biggest city I'd ever lived in. Still is. [Laughs]

AI: What was your first impression there? What did you see first and do first when you got to Chicago?

MN: I don't recall what I did first or my impression, but it was a busy city, and nobody paid attention to you, because there were so many other ethnic groups there, Mexicans and stuff, that they didn't bother you. And I remember my girlfriend said, we were getting on the streetcar, and in Seattle you learn how to wait your turn to get in. And she pushed me in and said, "You'll never make the train, I mean, get on the bus if you don't get in." So she pushed me in, so that's... I learned how to push like the rest of 'em later on.

AI: Tell me about where you first lived after you got to town.

MN: I lived with my girlfriends for a while, and since it was getting crowded, I moved out and I had another girlfriend that was looking for a place, so we moved together and found an apartment.

AI: What was that, what area was that, or what...

MN: It was in the north end, and I can't exactly recall just exactly where it was. And at that time, I went to business school, and then working part-time at Stevens grade school -- I mean, Stevens Hotel in the evenings. And at that time, the FBI had come and had investigated me. I didn't know anything about it until they told me. Had gone to the place where I had lived, they went to my school, they went to my employee, they talked to my friends, everybody knew about it except me, and they even went to the apartment where I was living, and the woman got so scared she evicted me right then and there.

AI: What was that about? Did you find out?

MN: The FBI investigating? 'Cause my sister says, "How come they investigated you and didn't touch any of us?" And I recall that Seattle School District, when we got hired, and when there was all this ruckus, I read where all our names were given to the FBI (...) for clearance. And so I figured that's where the FBI had my name and did their search.

AI: So after you, you were evicted, what happened then?

MN: Then we had to find another place, and maybe it was better because we found a better place.

AI: What was that like, looking for housing in Chicago at that time?

MN: Sometimes it was difficult, and other times they didn't care who they (rented the rooms to).

AI: Well, something else that I understand or that other people have mentioned is that the racial composition of Chicago is quite different from Seattle. Can you tell me about that?

MN: There were a lot of foreigners, it seemed like, so when you, when we got there, they didn't bother you. Like in Seattle, if you went downtown, you stuck out. But over there, you didn't stick out at all. And jobs were easier to find in Chicago.

AI: And I understand that Chicago had, at that time, a much larger black population than there was in Seattle.

MN: Had larger what?

AI: A larger black population, African American population.

MN: Oh, that, they're, most of 'em lived in the south end, so we didn't have too much contact with the black people.

AI: So it wasn't as noticeable to you.

MN: No, no.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.