<Begin Segment 4>

BF: But your parents, they learned English from the same Christian teacher, right?

GH: Yeah.

BF: Is that...?

GH They learned background, English background, let's say, because the pronunciation was absolutely useless.

BF: Oh.

GH: The teacher never heard an English, never heard English spoken. So it was whatever he thought was pronunciation. And in talking to one of the cousins in Japan, they recalled hearing Mom's little descriptions, saying, "We got a lot of valuable background taking his courses. But, language and pronunciation were absolutely useless." [Laughs] It would've been better if they never heard it.

BF: Now had your father -- I don't know if you can answer this -- but did your father and mother go to this teacher mainly to prepare to come to the U.S.

GH: Uh-huh.

BF: ...or was there also...?

GH: No, no they were going to -- Dad was coming with his batch, his classmates. There were, well there were eight in his group. I don't know how many others about that age who were in the class. And they all paid some kind of fee to -- 'cause he had to have it with fees because that's how he survived...

BF: Right.

GH: ...the teacher. And he taught not only Japanese, but he taught his brand of Christianity, which was Uchimura's brand.

BF: So, although your father went to this class to prepare to go to the U.S., it sounds like the religious teachings he really became very attached to.

GH: Yeah, yeah. He, he not only learned Japanese but he got converted to Christianity, this brand of Christianity before he went abroad.

BF: You mean learned English, and then...?

GH: Yeah.

BF: Oh, ah. And then so it...

GH: Yeah.

BF: ...became very important to him, not just as a...

GH: Yeah, yeah. He was a converted missionary, sort of.

BF: Yeah.

GH: Yeah. Since, since they weren't preparing to become ministers in the traditional, professional sense, none of them followed that, but they carried on their own non-pastoral religious grouping. In spite of a lot of solicitation by the Protestant, Japanese Protestant churches of Seattle and Tacoma...

BF: Could you just...?

GH: ...Methodist church...

BF: Uh-huh.

GH: ...Baptist church, Congregational church, Presbyterian church...

BF: Uh-huh.

GH: ...and even Episcopal churches.

BF: They wanted them to be members?

GH: Oh, they were solicited constantly 'cause they -- when they had conferences and so on these people were different. They...

BF: Different how?

GH: Well they were more vocal, they were, they had more content and raised more questions. And so, you know they were of interest to the churches. And they were always solicited.

BF: Uh-huh.

GH: And they resisted it right up to World War II. And when they scattered -- Dad and the, one of the other persons, the one that was 109 or 110 -- they, they finally joined the Methodist church when they became just two alone. Especially when their wives passed away and so on.

BF: Why did they resist earlier? What were some of the beliefs associated with this group that made them sort of anti-denominational?

GH: Yeah, well one of, one of Uchimura's learning in one of the seminaries in the Boston area -- he had an opportunity to go to school and he... I have that, somebody translated part of his diary. So I have a little bit of that, that I've been read -- that's the only thing I have that's kind of directly related to Uchimura's own writings. And this is a translation of his diary. So, he's saying, in essence to that question -- as he was leaving Japan, returning after several years' study -- Christianity is good and it's, it's very useful in Japan. But all this political stuff, clap-trap, it could remain here. He was referring to all these various denominations. It should, it should be one Protestant church, one united church. And that's what he was preaching. So part of his message was that kind of unity, a spiritual unity rather than decimating your energy into all these differences. And, so out of that kind of emphasis, they, they resisted, and they... and the fact that they were of interest to others must have reflected positively to maintain their difference.

BF: Um.

GH: And so...

BF: And this is that group that...

GH: Yeah.

BF: ...came from Japan all together...

GH: Yeah.

BF: ...from this one class, this one teacher?

GH: Well, yeah, and those who were attracted to join them.

BF: Oh, once they arrived?

GH: Yeah, and met with them. Some of them, when they moved to communities that had established churches, some of them joined other churches. But this group sort of -- the core, stayed as their teacher intended.

BF: And I, you were mentioning before that the beliefs also include not having one minister. Not having...

GH: Yeah.

BF: ...that they shared the...

GH: Yeah, that the, this message was available to everyone and it wasn't through, through somebody, and the responsibility was your own. So that made them search further, and resist and face competition. The competition not only with other churches in terms of organizational, it was other temptations. And so, resisting this church invitation was just part of resisting temptations [Laughs] more, so to speak. So it wasn't especially organized resistance to the -- 'cause they did go to conferences and gatherings, Christian gatherings. Their part, they felt they're part of the group. But they were little unique.

BF: Uh-huh.

GH: And they felt that there was something valuable in the uniqueness. And, and they persisted in that. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't be surprised. I would be happy if somebody following this -- this, this professor is too old to be the one to do that. But others might be able to come out researching the seeds of this group.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.