<Begin Segment 16>

GH: We had postwar depression. And that's the years when they were doing Charleston and stuff like that. It was before the big depression. But we already had the postwar depression. Farming was very difficult, and we're having the case. And not going very well.

BF: Now this was the, a case where your...

GH: Yeah.

BF: ...your parents were in trouble for...?

GH: We were part of this co-op, 40 acre co-op called, White River Gardens. (In Japanese, it would be called shirokawa kumiai.) And the farm was in the name of the largest contributor, daughter, she was the oldest Nisei, ten years old. And her, she had, for legal purposes, an advisor. Her legal guardian was the wife of a Japanese missionary, that is missionary to Japan -- Irish family named (U.G. for Ulysses Grant) Murphy. He used to come out once a month and talk with the families' group.

BF: So the fam -- the co-op couldn't own land. The adults, the Isseis couldn't own the land...

GH: Yeah, that's right.

BF: ...and so they put it in the name of one of the daughters...

GH: Yeah, yeah.

BF: ...the oldest daughter. And they had a advisor who was Caucasian...

GH: Yeah, yeah.

BF: ...a minister. Okay.

GH: Minister's wife.

BF: And how did they, how did the authorities get involved? How did --

GH: Well, they were checking up on things. And the others had Caucasian adults they were using -- subterfuges. But either they were doing that, or they were legally renting from Caucasians. And sometimes it was, they put up most of the money towards purchase, but using this guy and paying him rent. And...

BF: So the...

GH: I think most, wherever there were inquiries made, they made whatever adjustments were necessary. This group, out of their religious principles of being honest -- I mean, you know, being honest and putting it in a daughter's name, you could say, well, that's not as honest as you think. It's a subterfuge. Well, that's what they called it too.

BF: The government?

GH: Yeah, yeah. But you could leave, you could leave, you could buy property. Caucasians were buying property for their kids. Leave it in their, for inheritance, you know.

BF: Right.

GH: So they were doing this not -- they didn't invent this idea, it was being used. So they used this, and, mainly because they weren't able to buy it. But this was a device that was used by others, so they were using it.

BF: But instead of when...

GH: Yeah, instead of...

BF: ...the authorities come changing --

GH: They could've compromised and paid off somebody or other. I mean this, it's being done. But this minister was the, you know, the religious advisor, he'd come in once a month and spend the time visiting with families, and then gave the main sermon, and then left on Sunday night. So he came Saturday, probably and stayed at this neighbor's house, he had the best house. And he made money during World War I running a pig farm. And he had, he said, he was telling me this, "Boy, on weekends you have whole meals, boiled eggs by the dozens." 'Cause they're not there, they still cook it, you see. We, we would say, "Who's taking off, and who's not?" And we'd reduce the amount we cook. But they just cooked the whole batch, and says, "We had this -- the pigs never had it so good." And so he did well. He had a contract to take the garbage, including this kind of weekends, rich food and so on. And with the money he made, he wanted to move to a place where they could expand and have 40 acres, with about three other colleagues. So he worked hard on this group, Dad's group, that were young people who were batching, working on the thing and then each, one by one got married, and they now have families. And three of 'em agreed to move out with him.

TI: You're referring to Mr. Katsuno?

GH: Yeah. And, but they didn't have money, see. They were just surviving. So Katsuno put up the money, the down payment and the major expenses. They built houses, you know. Pretty good houses. And so we had better than normal housing for Japanese farmers in that area. And, Katsunos, eventually they got indoor plumbing and so on, but at the beginning we all had outhouses. So...

BF: And so they were the ones who put the land, it was their daughter whose name the land was in?

GH: Yeah, their daughter was there. She was only ten, so she was going through grade school. And then eventually graduated, and then went to university, and stayed with one of the families they knew. Oh, they, they made sure she was with somebody who took authority, you know, responsibilities. So...

BF: Now --

GH: She went a couple years, then got married.

BF: Uh-huh, uh-huh. But when she was still young, this is when the case...

GH Yeah, it was during the '20s.

BF: ...was going on. She was still a minor.

GH: Yeah. She went to university in the latter '20s.

BF: Right. Now they lost this case.

GH: Yeah.

BF: It went all the way to the State Supreme Court...

GH: State Supreme Court.

BF: ...and they lost. Now did they lose all the land then? I mean, it went to --

GH: Well, yeah. Well, they, whatever they had put in, they lost it. We stayed on 'cause they didn't have any other purpose for this except to defeat us. And then we, we leased it from the government.

BF: Oh.

GH: So they were paying instead of towards their own, they were paying some kind of lease.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.