Densho Digital Archive - Wesley K. Watanabe Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

AI: So today is July 4, 2004, we're here at Oregon Institute of Technology in Klamath Falls, Oregon. I'm Alice Ito from Densho, on videography is Steve Colgrove, and we're here with Wesley Watanabe for an interview. And Mr. Watanabe, thanks so much for taking this time.

WW: Welcome, quite welcome.

AI: And as I mentioned in our earlier conversation, we're just gonna begin at the beginning, so can you tell me when and where you were born?

WW: I was born May 20, 1935, in Tacoma, Washington.

AI: And tell me, how did your parents come to be in Tacoma?

WW: My dad came as a young man, he was about sixteen, from Japan, and worked there to make money to send home, apparently. I think, like a lot of other, I think, Japanese families did. And he had various jobs, I remember him telling us he worked in the sawmill, and worked up in the cannery, salmon canneries up in Alaska, actually. And then as a young person, he also worked in a photographic studio, processing films and tinting pictures and this kind of thing. So he had a, did a, had a varied background doing different things.

AI: Do you happen to know what ken he came from in Japan?

WW: Shimane-ken.

AI: And do you know much about his family back there, or their background, or what, what they were involved in?

WW: My father, 'course his, had a father and mother. His mother came to this country -- as well as his father, and his mother died at a fairly young age. And other than that... he has, he had, I should say, siblings in Japan as well.

AI: So your father not only came over at the age of sixteen from Japan, but his, his father also had come?

WW: His father came first, actually, and then sent for my father to help. And that's when he came.

AI: So then, do you happen to know if your father was able to go to school in the U.S. at all?

WW: My father, when he came here, he did attend, I guess it was high school or equivalent of high school, while learning the English language.

<Begin Segment 2>

AI: And then what about your mother's side?

WW: My mother? She was born in Washington, Vashon Island, actually, Washington, and, 'course, went to school there until the time they moved, her parents moved the family to Kent, Washington. And then she continued her schooling there and graduated from Kent High School.

AI: Oh. So actually, your mother was Nisei.

WW: Nisei, yes, my mother was Nisei. Right.

AI: So, and, do you happen to know what ken her parents came from in Japan?

WW: Shimane-ken as well.

AI: And tell me, what kind of business, or how did her folks make a living?

WW: Her father... well, when he first got to the States, he came as a young man, and he worked on the railroad in Montana, he used to say. And when he used to relate to how cold it got, people would not believe him. Didn't realize how cold it can get. And then later on, I don't know how long it took, but he seemed to have a knack for establishing businesses or doing this kind of thing. And eventually, he had a fairly large greenhouse, and then adjoining land, upon which, within the greenhouse they grew, I guess, flowers and tomatoes and then outside they grew some crops, flowers and some vegetables as well.

AI: So they were, your mother's family was in business --

WW: Yes.

AI: -- and she kind of grew up, it sounds like, grew up in the flower business.

WW: Right, correct. Right.

AI: Well, did your mother say very much about her growing-up years? She, at that time, she must have been one of the older Nisei then.

WW: When we were evacuated?

AI: Before that. When your, when your mother was a child. Did she tell you much about her own childhood?

WW: I can remember some things. She mentioned that when she, she had a brother -- she had several siblings, but a brother that was about a year, year-and-a-half older than her, and they started school together, actually. And when they started school they could not speak English, but they obviously learned very quickly and well. And she went all through the school system in Kent and graduated from high school.

AI: Oh, and when was your mother born?

WW: My mother was born... born in October 14, 1912.

AI: 1912.

WW: Yes.

AI: And, and what was her name? Your mother's name?

WW: Her name was Rose Ayako.

AI: And what about your father? Do you happen to know when he was born?

WW: He was born September 24, 1899.

AI: And his name?

WW: Frank Kunio Watanabe.

AI: So he went by Frank.

WW: He went by Frank, right.

<Begin Segment 3>

AI: So do you know how your parents met, or how their marriage came about?

WW: They met... I'm not quite sure how they met. All I know is that the, well, the community, farming community and so forth there, out there, or the Japanese community, was generally pretty condensed, they kept in touch with each other pretty much, so apparently he met my mother that way. Somehow. [Laughs]

AI: And so about when did they get married?

WW: They got married in 19-something. 1931, I believe.

AI: And then tell me about your family. Let's see. You were born in 1935.

WW: Yes.

AI: Did you have brothers and sisters?

WW: I had, my first sister was born around 1932, but she died in infancy from pneumonia, I believe. My second sister was born in 1934, and then, then I was born, of course, in 1935. I have a brother that was born in 1943, he was born in Minidoka.

AI: So that was later.

WW: That was later, right, right.

AI: Well, so tell me a little bit about what you remember, some of your earliest memories. Like maybe your, your childhood home. What, what did your home look like, what was your neighborhood like?

WW: Back in Kent?

AI: Right.

WW: Well, my memory of Kent is pretty vague, but I am reminded of what it was like sometimes if I look at some of the movie pictures that my dad took. I know we, my, had cousins that were in the area at the time, and I remember playing with them. Had a neighbor when we lived in Kent, next door, that his name was Jack Smith, that I used to play with. He was my best friend at the time. As far as school goes, I, 'course, went to grade school in Kent.

<Begin Segment 4>

AI: Do you remember your first year or so in school?

WW: First year? Not too much. About the only thing I can remember is I would, I didn't like to go to school or want to go to school. My mother would put me on the bus, I'd go to school, and get off the bus and walk home. And tell, give my mother excuses, tell them that the big boys made me get off or whatever. Eventually, apparently, I became used to it and continued going to the school.

AI: Well, now, you mentioned that, about your mother having difficulty learning English at first when she went to school.

WW: Right.

AI: But what about you? What language did you use in the home when you were a kid?

WW: English was spoken at home, in our home. The only Japanese I was exposed to was from my grandparents being around, and what I learned from them is pretty much what I know now, which is pretty limited.

AI: Did, did your grandparents live with you?

WW: No. We lived separately, however, they were close enough that I saw them frequently.

AI: Well, and so tell me about the house that you lived in. Was your house right next to, on the same land as the greenhouses or was it separated?

WW: I'm not sure where we, if we lived with my grandparents initially or not, but I do know that eventually, my dad built a home that was not too far from my grandfather's house.

AI: And as a kid, were you ever asked to help out? Did you have responsibilities where you had chores or some particular job that you had to work at?

WW: No, I don't remember ever having to do anything as far as work goes. It seems to me my recollections are just playing and so forth. Of course, I was, I was six years old when we left Kent, so...

<Begin Segment 5>

AI: So, tell me, do you remember much about that time when... or do you have any memory of December 7, 1941? That was the bombing of Pearl Harbor. You were very young then.

WW: Right.

AI: Do you recall anything?

WW: I have, no, I have no recollection of that at all. The only, I can just vaguely remember when we were evacuated, and maybe I remember more because my parents will tell me that we as kids were all excited because they dressed us up, and we were going for a train ride. So that's about all we knew.

AI: Right. So, and then do you recall anything about the train ride at all?

WW: No, I don't. That I don't.

AI: Where did you go first, when you, when you were first taken from your home in Kent?

WW: First place we went to was Pinedale, and that was in May of 1942.

AI: Once you got to Pinedale, was it fairly warm, or do you recall what the condition was like?

WW: I don't, I don't recall, I just, from hearing from what my parents said, they said it was dusty and hot.

AI: Right, and then you must have stayed there for several months in Pinedale?

WW: We were there, according to what my dad had written, about, just a few months. And then from there we went to Tule Lake.

AI: Another train ride.

WW: Another train ride, yeah. That I don't remember.

<Begin Segment 6>

AI: So then, what's the, what's the next memory that you have, probably while you were in Tule Lake?

WW: Tule Lake, the little memories that I do have are usually memories of playing with my friends. We, I remember we used to play Kick the Can quite a bit, in-between the barracks, and things of that nature. Play marbles, I don't know where we did that, we were just out at the campsite today, and pretty sandy there. I don't know how we accomplished that.

AI: Do you recall meals out there?

WW: Meals I don't recall, however, I was told by my mother that when we first got to camp, there were times when I'd just walk out of the mess hall. When I'd look at the meals, I just decided I didn't want to eat it, and so I'd walk out. But other than that, I really don't remember.

AI: Right, so in '42, then, you would have been about seven years old.

WW: Right, right.

AI: And in the... as I understand it, I think it was in the late, later in 1942, that schools were started up in Tule Lake. Do you remember attending school in Tule Lake?

WW: I don't, I don't remember attending in Tule Lake, no. That I don't remember. Once we moved from Tule Lake to Minidoka, though, I do vaguely remember going to school in Minidoka.

AI: Do you remember anything about your class there, or your teacher?

WW: Well, when I was in Minidoka, when I was in fourth grade, which meant I was about nine years old, I do remember my teacher's name was Ms. Ginnup. And she used to teach us art, of course, "art" meaning drawing and coloring with crayon and so forth, but I seemed to enjoy that.

AI: So tell me what else about Minidoka, either that you recall or that your parents told you about life in Minidoka.

WW: Minidoka, there, my recollections there are also of playing, like kids, we used to remember catch grasshoppers, there'd be so many of them, we'd just gather them from the sides of the barracks, the tarpaper barracks. Either that or lizards, we had so many of those. I'm trying to recall other things. Pretty, pretty vague.

AI: Do you remember anything like Christmas in Minidoka, or New Year's in Minidoka?

WW: No, that I don't remember.

AI: And then, so you were there in Minidoka, that probably would have been later in 1943?

WW: Right. We moved to Minidoka, well, we left Tule Lake in September of '43, and then we were in Minidoka until March of 1945.

AI: Oh.

WW: And that's, that's when we left.

AI: Right. And so, so what happened then?

WW: Well, actually, before we as a family left Minidoka, my dad obtained a job in Illinois, in a greenhouse, and after -- well, he was there at one particular greenhouse, and then when he was offered a job at another place, which he did take, he was told that if we as a family came out, we would have living accommodations there, and that's when we moved out to West Chicago.

AI: Oh.

<Begin Segment 7>

AI: So, then when you left Minidoka, you left with your mother and your...

WW: My mother...

AI: And your sister.

WW: It was my mother and sister and brother, right.

AI: And, and your baby brother.

WW: Baby brother. He, my brother was just learning to walk as we were moving out to Illinois from Minidoka. Right, so he was, he was a baby.

AI: So then when you left Minidoka, and I guess that would be another train ride.

WW: Another train ride which I don't remember. [Laughs] That I don't remember.

AI: And then, then you arrived in West Chicago.

WW: Right.

AI: So tell me what, what your home was like in West Chicago.

WW: When we first moved out to West Chicago, we were living on the premises of where my father was employed, in an apartment, so to speak. And then later on, there was a fire in the apartment, and we had to evacuate the apartment, so at that time my dad purchased a home. And then from there until the time I (graduated), I lived there until the time I got married.

AI: And that also was West Chicago.

WW: That was also in West Chicago, correct.

AI: So could you give me a picture of what West Chicago looked like? Was it fairly rural at the time when you were young?

WW: It, West Chicago was a very small town at the time, over, oh, I don't know how many thousand, just a few thousand, actually. Very small community, predominantly people of German ancestry.

AI: And so, and what, what school did you start attending there?

WW: I started in fourth grade at a school called Lincoln school, and 'course, the first person that I recall meeting was a, a boy, 'course, a man now, but he, his parents had a greenhouse adjacent to the greenhouse where I grew, where my father was employed.

AI: And was, was he also Japanese American?

WW: My friend? No, no, he was not. We were the only Japanese family, people in West Chicago.

AI: Oh, so you were literally the only Japanese Americans in that town?

WW: Right, right.

AI: Was that strange for you, coming from a camp where there were thousands of other Japanese Americans, and then going someplace where you were the only ones?

WW: I don't recall too much it being strange for me, however, I do recall it was a novelty for the kids in school, seeing someone like me whom they had never associated with...

AI: What kind of treatment did you get from the other kids?

WW: It was not bad treatment, but it was more treatment, I would say, from them, of curiosity, and then knowing that I was of Japanese ancestry, I recall one situation where a boy had asked, "Well, say something in Japanese," this kind of thing.

AI: And did, were you able to say anything in Japanese?

WW: Oh, just very briefly, I said something. What it was I don't remember. I must have told him, "My name is such-and-such," or something like that. 'Cause my language proficiency in Japanese, of course, was pretty limited, so I couldn't tell him very much.

AI: And what about your teachers? Did you receive positive treatment from your teachers, or did you ever receive any kind of feeling of prejudice?

WW: From, I, she, no, I felt no prejudice whatsoever from my teachers. I have good memories of my teachers all the way through grade school and high school. So that, that was a positive, there.

<Begin Segment 8>

AI: Well, you mentioned that much of the town there was of German ancestry.

WW: Yes.

AI: And I'm wondering, how, as you got a little bit older and made friends, what, did you get some sense of what their German American culture was like?

WW: Well, I, I never thought of it that way, really, and it didn't appear to me as though, although they are of German ancestry, they, I didn't see any difference in them as opposed to any other ethnic group, really.

AI: So then as you were getting older, and going into high school, at that point, what was your kind of sense of yourself? Because by then, you and your family had been living there quite some time, now you're in high school, kind of -- and in high school, of course, it's a time when most kids want to fit in.

WW: Right, right.

AI: And, and be accepted. So what was your situation? Did you feel that you were fitting in?

WW: I felt that I fit in, fit in quite well. Of course, I wanted to be like them, and, of course, obviously I couldn't be in all, all manners, of course. So that I had kind of mixed feelings there, wanting to be like them and assimilate with them, however, being physically different than them made it, at times, somewhat difficult. To them, perhaps, they couldn't sense anything, but I, myself, I could sense it.

AI: Were there, during your high school years, were there other ethnic or racial minorities in your school?

WW: No, I was the only one. Certainly all of 'em were all Caucasian, they all looked alike, and I was the only different person, so to speak. There might have been a few that were of Mexican heritage, however, they, I didn't look at them as being any different than the others. I just realized that I was a little bit more different than the rest of 'em.

AI: And did you ever feel that was, put you at a disadvantage in any way?

WW: I didn't feel like it put me at a disadvantage, 'course, academically, it had no bearing whatsoever. Only thing there is I tried to do better than them, because of, perhaps, maybe things that were instilled in me at home.

<Begin Segment 9>

AI: Well, tell me a little bit about that. What kinds of things did your parents stress to you? What was important to them?

WW: Well, my father, particularly, he, he came as a young boy himself, and he didn't have the opportunity to further himself in education, other than high school. And he always lamented later on that, oh, he had friends that had become so accomplished and successful, a friend that might be a physician, or a minister, this kind of thing. And he felt kind of badly about that, so he would always stress that if he had had an opportunity, he would perhaps like to have been a medical doctor like one of his friends. So that, I think that kind of put the, set the tone for me, and therefore I did strive to do better. (In fact, I graduated as valedictorian in high school.)

AI: Did they, did your parents have any particular religious affiliation, or any kind of religious related values that they stressed to you?

WW: Yes, we, my mother and father were Episcopalian, so I grew up in the Episcopal church.

AI: Oh. Do you know when they, or do you happen to know if either of them were from a Christian family in Japan? Or did that come later, perhaps?

WW: My father did not become a Christian until he came to this country, and then he, at that time, he became a Methodist and then my mother was of the Episcopal faith. I don't know when she started that, but then when they got married, they were married in the Episcopal church. And therefore I was raised in the Episcopal church.

AI: So, also, pretty much throughout your growing-up years then, that was the church that you attended?

WW: Yes, that was the only church I attended then, right.

AI: Then what other kinds of things, I'm very interested, because your mother herself was Nisei, and grew up as an American citizen. I wondered, did she or your father, also, ever say much about citizenship or about being American, or about being Nihonjin? Did they ever...

WW: My father, he always regretted the fact that he could not become a citizen until 1952, which is about a year before I graduated from high school, then he became a citizen. 'Course, my mother, obviously, being born in Washington, she obviously was a citizen, so she never brought up the subject of being a citizen.

AI: I'm wondering if your, either of your parents ever said much about their camp experience as you were getting older, either in your high school years or later. Did they say very much about what happened in those years, or comment on it to you?

WW: They didn't comment too much on it. They, I don't know if it was because they were reluctant to speak about it, or perhaps it was too painful for them, but they did mention, particularly my dad. He was more so, being, gave a sense of being bitter about losing possessions and business and so forth.

AI: Right. So that must have been quite a blow for him, because it sounds like they had quite a bit of business before, before going.

WW: Yes, yes, uh-huh.

AI: And I'm also interested, you mentioned that your father had photography skills, and did you say that he took some home movies?

WW: He took home movies, and as far as, or long as I can remember, he started taking pictures of our family when I was very, very little, must have been three or four years of age.

AI: And I was so curious about that, because I know that there was an interest in photography among some of the Japanese immigrants...

WW: Right.

AI: ...but I don't know of that many people who actually had the home movies.

WW: Oh, yes, yes. He took a lot of 8-mm color movies, and...

AI: And so do you still have any of those?

WW: I have some of them, yes, uh-huh.

AI: That's wonderful.

WW: Great.

<Begin Segment 10>

AI: Well, so getting back to your high school years then, as you were going through high school, what, what did you have in mind? What were you thinking of doing at that time? What were some of your plans for the future?

WW: Well, my first thoughts were of going into medicine, I think partly because of what my dad was always talking about, and it sounded like a good profession to me. So I went through high school with that in mind, and geared my courses, trying to accumulate credits and courses that obviously would be a prerequisite for going into pre-med, and that's what I did, concentrated on.

AI: And when did you graduate high school? What year was that?

WW: I graduated from high school in 1953.

AI: And then did you go directly on to college?

WW: Then I went directly on to the University of Illinois, undergraduate school at Champaign-Urbana, and enrolled in pre-med.

AI: Well, that must have been quite a change for you, because you had grown up in your childhood home in West Chicago all those years. What, what were some of your first impressions on leaving home?

WW: My first impressions were going to a school so large. High school I went to was very small, everyone practically knew everyone else there. When I went to the U of I, it was obviously so large, it was, it was somewhat of a shock. But it was also exciting at the same time, going to a big university.

AI: And did you live on campus?

WW: I lived on campus, yes. I lived in two different boarding houses for men, while I was down there. During the course of time when I was in pre-med, I had second thoughts about medicine, and decided to go into dentistry. And since pre-dent and pre-med are pretty much the same curriculum, I, later on when I was in undergrad school, I applied for dental school, and I was admitted.

AI: What were some of the factors in deciding to switch to dentistry?

WW: Some of the factors, I thought perhaps -- well, the dentists I was going to at the time in West Chicago, my own personal dentists, made it seem to me like a very attractive profession. I also felt that my hours, perhaps, could be dictated more by myself, and also, I would not be dealing with life and death situations all the time. So those were some of the reasons I chose dentistry instead.

<Begin Segment 11>

AI: Well, now I'm interested; you mentioned that, of course, in college it was such a much larger student body and a campus, what was the ethnic racial makeup there? You had come from where you were literally the only person who was not Caucasian. Now, going on to this college campus, what was the, the situation there? Were there many other ethnic or racial minorities?

WW: There were other racial minorities there, however, it seems to me I didn't really associate with some of those people. In the house within which I lived, it was pretty much all Caucasian, except there was one person that, of Japanese descent also, who came from a nearby community, not too far from West Chicago. And... yeah.

AI: So, so once again, you were not really in contact with a lot of other Japanese Americans.

WW: No, I was not.

AI: Well, I wanted to ask you, again, a similar kind of question, which was did you perceive much prejudice, or feel that you might have been affected by some kind of discrimination during your college years?

WW: I didn't believe I was there. There... well, some occasions, perhaps, where I might sense -- maybe it was more myself feeling that there might be some prejudice. I was just maybe in a bit of, a little leery. I do recall going to a barber shop once, and the barber, the man there, the barber, commented on how well I spoke English, and he also commented, "Well, you don't have a --" his, his word was, "you don't have a twang." And he himself sounded like he was from the South. You get down to Champaign-Urbana, and it's amazing how different the people sound. It's not that far south of Chicago. So just little incidents like that would pop up occasionally.

AI: But other than that...

WW: Other than that, I felt no prejudice or pressure from anyone within college, from professors, or anyone like that. I felt like I fit right in. 'Course, I was used to fitting in, having come from a small community where there were no other ethnic groups, really, so to speak.

AI: Well, that's very interesting to me, because really, your, your family moved to West Chicago so relatively soon after World War II, and the fact that people didn't, may not have been in contact with any Japanese Americans before you arrived, I was thinking, well, perhaps they might have felt some negative, maybe even be hostile, because of, there was so much negativity about Japanese during the World War II. But it sounds like that didn't affect you too much, or if it did, if it was there, it wasn't real blatant.

WW: I don't believe it was, no. Of course, when we first got to West Chicago, I was so young that even if sometimes people had said something, I wouldn't have been sophisticated enough to really understand what they're hinting at, or saying, really.

AI: Right. Well, now as you were getting older, in your college years, did you think that you might have difficulty getting accepted to dental school because of discrimination in, in education?

WW: No, I didn't, that didn't occur to me. I didn't think I would be, and apparently I didn't. So, yeah, that didn't pass my, pass my mind.

<Begin Segment 12>

AI: So then, after you finished your undergrad, did you go directly on to, to dental school?

WW: I went directly on to dentistry, I went to University of Illinois in Chicago, enrolled in the dental school there.

AI: And how was that?

WW: How was it? It was... I would not want to repeat it. [Laughs]

AI: So it was challenging?

WW: It was challenging, and I just didn't like the attitude of some of the professors. And not only myself, but others within our class. I mean, some of 'em would teach, treat the students in a demeaning manner, and I, to this day, I don't understand why they would want to do that. Dentistry itself is a difficult enough profession without making it difficult for a person trying to learn it. So, yeah. Therefore, I have mixed emotions about dental school. I mean, it was a good learning institution and so forth, however, I didn't like some of the teaching methods.

AI: It sounds as though at least the teachers were equally demeaning to all students.

WW: Yes, they were. And there were other, there were some other Asians, and a few blacks, other minorities, and everyone was treated equally, the same way. [Laughs]

AI: And what year was it that you finished dentistry school?

WW: I finished dental school in 19', year 1960. And...

<Begin Segment 13>

AI: Well, at that, in 1960, some things had shifted in the world situation, and the, and the country. Of course, during the '50s, the Civil Rights movement had started becoming increasingly vocal, and I'm wondering, there in Chicago, were there any incidents of racial protest or civil rights activity at the time that you were in dental school that you recall?

WW: Well, there was the... I can't remember, well, not, not a whole lot, really. It seems to me, at the time I was not paying too much attention to things. 'Course, I was aware of things going on, but I, just trying to block those kinds of things out of my mind, and concentrating on what I was doing.

AI: I'm sure you, the work was challenging, and you needed to really focus on that.

WW: Right, right.

AI: Well, I was asking this question partly because I'm also aware that Chicago has a history of being racially divided. Of course, it's primarily black and white.

WW: Yes.

AI: Racial divisions.

WW: Right.

AI: And I'm wondering, of course, most of the time you were there in school, and that was your main focus, but I'm wondering, during that time or maybe afterwards, if there was, if you had a sense that... were you in the middle between whites and blacks, or how did people think of you or perceive you, do you suppose?

WW: I wasn't really sure. I mean, being in school and so forth, I wasn't really sure how they perceived me, but I, I, myself, didn't feel that I should have any difficulties because of it. Maybe because I pretty much grew up in a community where I really didn't run into any, really, difficulties there.

AI: So even though the city of Chicago had some racial divisions, and there, from time to time there was some friction, that wasn't something that really touched you at the time personally.

WW: No. No, it didn't.

<Begin Segment 14>

AI: So then after you finished dental school in 1960, what happened then?

WW: I, as soon as I finished dental school, I wasn't sure where I wanted to practice. And also, I had, was waiting for the navy to call me onto active duty, and when they finally didn't, that's when I started my practice in West Chicago. I was persuaded by a dentist in West Chicago that had an overload of patients, so to speak, and he knew of me through my sister. He was my sister's dentist, and persuaded me to start my practice there, which I did.

AI: So there you were, in your, you were brand-new in business.

WW: Right.

AI: So tell me, what were, what were some of the challenges there as you were starting up your practice?

WW: Some of the challenges were really... the newness of it, and being inexperienced. I think those are the main things, and also, at the time, I was twenty-five, and I looked very young. And some people were perhaps a little bit leery because I looked so young. However, most, most people accepted me, and 'course, there were a lot of people that knew me and I knew them, so that helped, having grown up there.

AI: Well, that's so interesting to me, that rather than having people be, perhaps, hesitant about you because you're Japanese American, they were hesitant about you as a professional because you were very young-looking.

WW: Right, that's the feeling I got, yes. Right.

AI: Well, so then as you're beginning your practice and the early years were starting up, there were also things changing, and, of course, John F. Kennedy was president then in the early years of your practice. Do you recall the day that he was assassinated?

WW: Day he was assassinated, I was at work, and I first heard of it through my wife, who was, happened to be watching television at the time, I believe. And I found out through her. There were, of course, other people around that would have talked about it as well.

AI: What was your reaction when you heard that news?

WW: Well, I was very, very shocked and saddened, like a lot of people, and just couldn't understand why. Well, of course, things happen, but just couldn't understand it.

AI: Well, and then, of course, Johnson came into the presidency, and soon after that, he signed all of that civil rights legislation, the Civil Rights Act in 1964, and Voting Rights Act in 1965. And I know from, my understanding is that that was, really had a big impact on the African American population. But I'm wondering, did you have any sense that that had any relation to you at all? That new legislation?

WW: No, I didn't feel it directly myself. I realized the significance of it, however, I didn't feel it affected me too much, really.

<Begin Segment 15>

AI: And you mentioned that you also had gotten married.

WW: Yes.

AI: And, so when was that?

WW: I was married in 1962.

AI: And did you have children?

WW: We have two children, yes, a boy and a girl, in that order. Son was born in 1964, and daughter 1965.

AI: So as your children were growing up, did you ever tell them that, at one time, that you and your parents had been in camps in World War II? Or did you talk to your children at all about any of that background?

WW: I don't recall telling them too much. Might have mentioned it, however, I didn't talk to them a lot about it, or tell them my feelings about it, or the effect that I thought that it had on me. I just didn't delve into it. Pretty much the way my parents handled it, I believe.

AI: Right.

WW: Not to, didn't talk about it too much, really.

<Begin Segment 16>

AI: Well, for yourself, what kind of, you were just mentioning the impact, what kind of impact do you think, looking back now, what kind of impact do you think that experience had on you?

WW: Well, I think it, what it did was created a, somewhat of a sense of bitterness, a sense of betrayal, anger, these kind of things which, which I didn't realize, feelings I had before. 'Course, being so young when we were incarcerated, I didn't understand the significance. And then even in my early adulthood, going through school, really didn't bother me much, or I didn't think about it too much. If I thought about it, it was all in the subconscious. However, as I got more, the older I got, the more I became aware of it, and thought about it and felt it, and may not have vocalized it, but the feelings definitely were there.

AI: Well, is there anything in particular that you think affected your feelings, or caused you to become more aware, more conscious of the negative aspects of that experience?

WW: I don't know if there's any one thing in particular, but it's just the thought of being a citizen and being incarcerated, imprisoned, with no due process whatsoever. That's the thing that really gets to me, annoys me.

<Begin Segment 17>

AI: Well, and then, let's see. It was the mid- and late-1970s that the Japanese American redress movement started going, and my understanding, from talking to some people, and reading, also, is that some people felt that maybe that wasn't a very good idea at first, that, when I say "some people," I'm referring to actually Japanese Americans who were afraid that there might be a backlash against them, against Japanese Americans, if they were to be asking for redress.

WW: Uh-huh.

AI: And I'm wondering, what do you recall about hearing about redress, and did you have a sense whether it might be a good idea or perhaps not such a good idea?

WW: I felt that it was a good idea, not necessarily because of the monetary amount which was given, which was actually a pittance, really. Really didn't compensate in any way, shape, or form, for what was lost materially, or psychologically. But I do think the main thing, or important thing, was that there was a, apology was made. I think that was the most important thing. And that, I thought, was really something that should have been done, and was done, and was thankful for it.

AI: Well, it, of course, it took a long time.

WW: Yes.

AI: It was 1981 that the Commission on Wartime Internment and Relocation of Citizens [Ed. note: referring to the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians], or commonly called the Redress Commission, had their hearings around the country. So that was in 1981, and then it wasn't until 1988 that the redress bill was passed in Congress, President Reagan signed it, and then it wasn't until 1990 that the apologies and the checks were, the early ones were received.

WW: Right.

AI: So, and do you recall ever having any conversation with your parents about the redress, or were they alive and able to receive redress themselves?

WW: They were alive, my, both my parents were alive and were able to receive redress, however, I don't remember a lot of conversation in regards to it, really. My sister, who was a year-and-a-half older than me, died in '75 at age forty-one, so therefore she did not receive it, so...

AI: What about yourself? When you actually got your apology in the mail and opened it with the check, what was your reaction? What was your response?

WW: I thought it was nice, in a way, however, at the time, I was established well enough that it really wouldn't have affected me either way, materially, monetarily, but I felt that since it was part of the apology, I felt that I could accept it and be appreciative of the fact that we did get something.

AI: So for you it was, sounds like it was more the apology, that really...

WW: Yes. Right, right.

AI: Well, after you received your redress, then did you say anything about it to your kids, or did they ask anything about the redress? Or were they aware that you received redress?

WW: I believe they were aware of it. Of course, at that time they were old enough to know the significance and so forth. I don't recall, really, making a big issue of it or talking to 'em about it, really.

AI: Right.

<Begin Segment 18>

AI: Well, then, since that time, how... 'course, we're here today at the Tule Lake Pilgrimage --

WW: Yes.

AI: -- and I'm wondering, have you come to previous pilgrimages?

WW: No, this, this is my first pilgrimage.

AI: How did you hear about it, and why did you decide to come?

WW: I heard about it, or read about it in the Pacific Citizen, or JAC-, yeah, Pacific Citizen, and decided that having been here, I thought it would be an excellent experience, and somewhat cathartic, also. We were, I was prepared to go to, I had heard about the pilgrimage to Arkansas through a cousin of mine, and I was prepared to go to it until I heard about this one and decided, well, I'd rather come here. But at the last moment, decided to apply for this one and did come, obviously.

AI: Because this is where your family actually went.

WW: This is where my family was, and I was, and thought it'd be good.

AI: So tell me about your, your reaction to actually being here, and to what you've seen so far.

WW: I think it's been excellent, not only seeing what is left of it physically, but hearing the accounts of other people, their experiences, and also hearing through a person like Jim Yamaichi is it?

AI: Yamaichi.

WW: And he gives an excellent -- we went on the walking tour of the camp site yesterday, and we thought it was excellent. It was just, he was trying to stress the, how large the camp actually was, and I don't recall as a child remembering, really, how large it was, but I could get a sense yesterday how big it is, or was.

<Begin Segment 19>

AI: You know, I'm wondering, I wanted to bring this up to, more toward the present, and as far as historical events goes, of course, September 11, 2001, was one of those events.

WW: Yes.

AI: And some Japanese Americans I've spoken to said that, that event and the aftermath reminded them of what happened after Pearl Harbor was bombed. And I'm wondering what your, your thought was, what your reaction was after September 11th.

WW: I didn't connect September 11th with the incarceration. I mean, I just didn't think of it in that manner. I was just thinking more what, what else might happen in the future if something like that has happened on our own soil. Of course, it's the first time my -- of course, other than Pearl Harbor, something that has happened on our own soil, but I just didn't connect the two. I was just concerned that it might happen in more depth somewhere else at a time, undetermined time, really.

AI: And, of course, after, part of the aftermath was that there were some backlash against Arab Americans, people perceived to be Middle Eastern and Muslim.

WW: Right.

AI: And then, of course, we've had the Patriot Act legislation, and some treatment of detainees that, without due process of law.

WW: Right.

AI: And as you followed these events in the news, what's your thinking, tell me a little bit about your reaction to hearing about these things.

WW: Well, yeah. I mentioned that I didn't connect the two when it occurred, the two events: Pearl Harbor and the World Trade Center. However, the aftermath is when I started to be a little apprehensive with what might happen to people of Middle Eastern descent after what had happened to us. That's when it did hit me, that we just hope that history doesn't repeat itself, and hope that people will be intelligent enough and compassionate enough not to let something like that happen again.

<Begin Segment 20>

AI: Okay, so we're continuing our interview with Wesley Watanabe, and I wanted to ask you about a very old movie that's, the title was Go for Broke, and it starred a, an actor, Van Johnson, and the movie was about the Japanese American soldiers during World War II. And I'm wondering if you recall that movie?

WW: I recall it somewhat, and, 'course, it was an enjoyable movie, I thought it was good in a way, because it told a little bit more about the Japanese Americans. And in that respect, I think it was good.

AI: Well, it was really one of the first movies that was widely distributed and seen by the general public, that had Japanese, a lot of Japanese Americans in it, and portrayed Japanese Americans in a positive light.

WW: Yes.

AI: So, so when you saw it, here you had, your life was really in West Chicago, and you were still a young person. What kind of reaction did you have on seeing this, this major movie come out?

WW: I thought it was good, because it, it portrayed the Japanese American in a positive way. That was the main thing I thought was good about it.

AI: And did you have family members, other relatives who served in the military?

WW: I had a couple of uncles that were in the MIS, Military Intelligence Service, both went up to Fort Snelling, Minnesota, for their language training skills, and so forth. And then ultimately, they were shipped overseas to the Philippines. And I know my older uncle went to Japan after the end of the war, and his job was to interrogate Japanese prisoners of war. And he said that it was quite an experience, because the country was so devastated at the time, and people were so poor. That I remember. He also talked about the Philippines, how hot it was, how they would get their daily showers, and so forth. (Narrator note: The younger of the two uncles unfortunately was killed in a crash landing along with nine other linguists (interpreters) while on his way from the Philippines to Japan on August 13, 1945, two days before the end of the war in Japan.)

AI: Well, and then, now that, after that Go for Broke movie, that was one of the early ones. More recently, there have been some other movies that have come out about the Japanese American experience, and, and books as well. And so I'm wondering, what are some of the books or movies that, that you've seen that you recall? I think you mentioned Snow Falling on Cedars?

WW: Right, Snow Falling on Cedars. I don't recall seeing any others, I don't believe. I, as far as books go, I did read Snow Falling on Cedars, and more recently, Stubborn Twig, which I thought was an excellent book.

AI: Well, and Stubborn Twig is about the Yasui family.

WW: Yes.

AI: And so, as you were reading that book about the Yasui family, what kinds of things came back to you?

WW: I thought it was excellent in that it not only taught me more about the history of the Issei and so forth, but I thought, in what I do know, that it paralleled what our family background, my family background is, going from Nisei -- Issei through myself, being, well, I guess part Nisei, part Sansei, really. So it was very interesting, informative. Very good, also in that it gave more history of the Issei generation when they first came to this country, and the hardships that they endured. Excellent book.

AI: That's right.

WW: Yeah.

AI: Well, I think, as we were talking briefly during the break, that there have been some changes over time, and as you look now at how the Japanese American experience is portrayed, what, do you think that there is more yet to be done in this area?

WW: I believe so. I still think that more people need to be educated, and obviously the place to start would be with the younger people, younger generation. And the more people that are educated, the better off it's going to be, not only for the Japanese Americans, but hopefully for other groups of people, also, that might be discriminated for one reason or another.

AI: Well, I thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate your participation in this interview.

WW: Thank you very much, my pleasure.

<Begin Segment 21>

AI: Well, so you were just showing me this letter that your father had written, and your father was born in 1899.

WW: Yes.

AI: And so when he wrote this letter, he was how old?

WW: About ninety-two, I believe. Yes.

AI: And so this is, if you read this letter, it'll describe a little bit about what he recalled from that time.

WW: Okay. This letter was written to a friend, good friend of his, and he says in the letter: "In result of Japan's surprise attack of Pearl Harbor, all of us, the people of ancestry of Japan, became most unpopular in U.S.A. 1942, in spring, we were driven out from home without almost anything which we can carry, and escorted by the military men, by special train, and were sent down to the assembly center, Pinedale, near Fresno, California, where we stayed there few month. The director of the, that center, appointed me as recreation director to pep up people's morale. I enjoyed this job, also became pretty popular. But time came to, we moved to Tule Lake relocation center. This camp is situated California and Oregon border, population 20,000 Japanese from Washington, Oregon, and some California. Three wards, fifty blocks, and I was appointed as manager of Block 49. After several months, the center became the segregated camp, and for some part occupied by extremely pro-Japan people, and rest were pro-American, therefore we must move again. We moved to the Minidoka relocation center near Twin Falls, Idaho, where second son, Joseph, was born."

AI: So here he was, ninety-two years old, and recalling what had happened so long ago.

WW: Uh-huh.

AI: And at the time, in 1942, he would have been about forty-one years old.

WW: Yes, yes.

AI: It sounds like he was very active in camp.

WW: Very active in camp. In some respects, despite the bitterness he felt, and the injustice which he felt for what occurred, he made the most of it, and being a gregarious person, just did things where he could be of help, and enjoyed, enjoyed himself doing so.

AI: Well, I'm really glad that you were able to share this letter --

WW: Oh, you're quite welcome.

AI: -- and it really, it adds to the picture of what his life was like at that time.

WW: Yes. Well, thank you.

AI: Thank you.

WW: I'm glad I brought it.