<Begin Segment 18>

AI: Well, there were, of course, many other things going on, because in July, there was that official announcement that Tule Lake would become a segregation center.

HK: Yes, that we heard. Yes.

AI: So what went through your mind when you heard about that?

HK: Well, I thought because we opposed the registration, and we were regarded as "disloyal" and "no-nos," same as "no-nos," yeah, we would have accepted that, yeah.

AI: So, did you --

HK: Another thing is that we weren't being forced out of the camp. My mother's concern was that we stay together within the camp, because there were a lot of rumors about all kinds of things outside. [Laughs]

AI: Well, of course, in 1943, you were turning twenty-one, and your younger brother would also be draft age.

HK: Yeah.

AI: So I'm sure your mother must have been very concerned that...

HK: Yeah, she was, yes.

AI: Well, so then, as 1943 continued, there was getting ready for segregation, and lots of things happening. Can you tell a little bit about those changes that happened as some people moved out of Tule Lake and others came in?

HK: Well, the atmosphere changed. All these recreational things were stopped, and so we were confined more within our own block, too. And then new people came in, and we were eyeing each other, because we couldn't, we didn't know each other, and it took a while to get to know these people. And they, having come from another camp, they were more aggressive, and they felt that all the good jobs had been taken, and so they were stuck with all the bad jobs. And so they were resentful of that, but they, they also looked at us as being rather strange. Because we were living in Tule Lake, and yet, we were stuck here. And they had come from another camp, and so they, they were more pro-Japan, and they all spoke Japanese, for the most part. They were mainly Kibei, but even the Nisei... we didn't have too many Nisei families. A Nisei with -- the parents were Issei, but there were Nisei children. The others were Kibei, four or five of 'em together in one, in one apartment.

AI: Oh, so single Kibei.

HK: Single, yeah. And so they were very, very aggressive, and very arrogant to our eyes. And by living together and working together, many of them worked in the mess hall, where they could only find jobs. We got to know them, yeah.

AI: Well, did, did they come from particular camps? The ones that were near to you, the ones that you got to know?

HK: Yeah, I think there were two, two groups that came from Topaz. Bay Area people went to Topaz, I believe. But they, I don't know whether they were from Bay Area. But yeah, and then there was one from Arkansas, one family. I don't know if there were other families. Maybe some Hoshidan, later Hoshidan members, older, more Issei type, yeah.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.