<Begin Segment 56>

TI: And I -- go ahead.

CO: Oh, you know, I like to ask philos-, well, I won't call it, elevate it to that level, but after all we've gone through and all we've learned and everything, how do you feel about what they did to us?

TA: What they did to us... anger. I mean, the time that I really felt angry was when I found those five letters pertaining to when our release -- it was approved, that close to freedom, and yet they held it. That, that really tee'd me off. The treatment that the United States treated us... you know, we're Americans, and we were taught in school that we're Americans. We had constitutional rights, civil rights, liberty, freedom, justice for all, and all of that gone. And yeah, I felt pretty angry about it. But, of course, as you grow older and you reflect, the anger disappeared but, but, then again, I hate to see it happen to other people. Because four years of my life, I was -- almost four years of my life was in captivity. I was the U.S. government's prisoner for four years. And then people say, "Well, if you were that angry, and you were captive for four years, how come you served in the army for twenty-six years?" Sort of contradicts itself. But I think that a deeper feeling was, was to serve my country. I don't want to wave the flag, but to show loyalty. And hopefully, through my service, that my grandchildren -- these are the ones that I'm worried about -- my grandchildren will be able to enjoy the freedom and liberty that they enjoy now. Be able to go to school. I mean, I tell the, I tell my kids, I says, "I didn't even have a grammar school diploma. I don't have a high school diploma." All that was taken away from me, I didn't even have a graduation. I went to night school while in the army, I matriculated my final year at, at University of Nebraska Omaha, but even then, as soon as I finished, they had orders for me to go to Vietnam. So I didn't even attend graduation there. I didn't even get a diploma, it was sent to me. So, those things were denied to me, and I don't like to see it again.

CO: Uh-huh. You know, the thing that I'm, I've gotten more and more aware of the more I study and research and all, is what it did to our community, the Nikkei community.

TA: True.

CO: And the divisions that were formed were so deep that it's like you kind of hope that, gee, if they understood all the various accidents and complexities and everything, that somehow they would be more reconciled, more reconciliatory -- I don't know what's the right word here -- but something where they, they could see what happened to us as a group, and all. But it's tough. A lot of Nikkei just don't seem to want to examine any of this.

TA: That's true, because it did destroy Japanese community cohesiveness. And, you know, when, you have what they call a sort of "invisible control" of, of yourself, not, like my father says, "Do not bring shame to, to us," and that was, it was not only my father. I think all the Isseis, and older Isseis, says, "Haji wo kakeruna. Don't bring shame to us. Those are things that, that the Japanese community had, and they were, they were more disciplined. The crime rate among Niseis, what was it prior to the war?

CO: Practically zero.

TA: Practically zero. I had, I never heard of any crime committed by us. Because we were admonished by our, our family, our family group. However, there's a plus side of this. And at first, I was really angry about it, but then after I thought about it, it turned out to be good. What happened is that they separated us, scattered us throughout the United States, broke the, what they called the Japanese ghettos, and we, by that, by numbers, in other words, the lesser the number, it's easier to be accepted. And as a result, the Japanese became accepted in the Japanese community. And not only that, the Niseis, the older Niseis, especially the people in camp, what they did is they had in mind that their Issei father says, "Education, hard work will bring success." And that's what the (Kibeis and) Niseis did. They went to school, they studied, they did well, they got good working jobs, and ended up as model U.S. citizens. So there's a plus side to this. Even after all of this, there's a plus side. Excuse me?

CO: But what a price. I, I just feel that, I don't know if it was worth the price.

TA: To my children and grandchildren, it is. To me, no. Because I felt that, that I was deprived. I had to get my education the hard way, the slow way. But then again, I achieved my education. But, but the thing is, my children have certain liberties that I never had. I mean, they could go to a community and be American, and of course, it depends on where you live, Washington and Anacortes, Virginia, and, of course, in the Bay Area, but out in the suburbs, they're easily assimilated. When I, in fact, one time, when I went to Omaha, and I wanted to go swimming, they frowned upon it. They looked at me, and treated me just like they treated other people. But now, my goodness. I mean, they could join the swimming club, baseball club, they could take any courses. I think that they have the freedom that my father wanted, believed in, and I feel strongly right now that, yeah, we had this renunciation thing, we bring up the resistance thing, we bring up my, my story, but truthfully, if you asked me, I'm telling you how I feel. Maybe other Niseis, Isseis, Kibeis, may not feel the same way. But I do feel that it improved our stature to the point that we have been accepted as being one of 'em, except for the "glass ceiling." Because I felt that "glass ceiling."

TI: At this point, we're running out of time on our tape, so --

TA: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I told you not to talk to me. [Laughs]

TI: This is, this is a great, a great ending for the interview, and I just, again, want to thank you so much for, for taking the time. And thank you so much.

TA: Well, thank you very much for having me. I certainly enjoyed it, and you, too, Chizu.

TI: And Chizu, thank you very much.

TA: Yeah, I certainly appreciate it, and it was nice. At least I got it off my chest. [Laughs]

<End Segment 56> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.